Beards or no beards?

[Clint]

Saying "its his face he can do what he wants with it" is fine, but its also the companies money and clients, and they can send who they want and feel who best represents them. If you look scruffy why should the company promote/hire you to a position that could have client interaction? Your skill is useless if you cant get the client to want the service.

I understand what you're saying, but that doesn't make it right. If somebody is qualified for a job, it shouldn't matter what they look like. If they have a scruffy beard, or scruffy eyebrows, who cares? That doesn't impact their ability to do a job. If a company doesn't want to hire a qualified applicant based on how they look, then that company isn't worth working for in the first place. If a client doesn't want to hire somebody based off of how they look, then that client doesn't deserve to have the job done.

Why are you paying attention to his replies/opinions? its usually from the perspective of him imitating the Eastwood man himself, engaging him is pointless, his presence here.. Pointless, every single one of his posts just causes me to scroll more, I thought everybody got that? im surprised he's kept it up so long, its not even funny, poor fella.

So harassment is tolerated here now? Okay, whatever.

[Crescent]

I understand what you're saying, but that doesn't make it right. If somebody is qualified for a job, it shouldn't matter what they look like. If they have a scruffy beard, or scruffy eyebrows, who cares? That doesn't impact their ability to do a job. If a company doesn't want to hire a qualified applicant based on how they look, then that company isn't worth working for in the first place. If a client doesn't want to hire somebody based off of how they look, then that client doesn't deserve to have the job done.

I dont think its right but it matters. Alot. and Yes more than it should. Maybe you should set up your own business Eastwood then then let us know how all that goes.

[Heartless Angel]

I can sort of see why certain customer service jobs would pass over guys with beards. Studies have shown that people are less likely to trust a guy with facial hair. Beards convey an image of aggressiveness and confidence. Subconsciously, they're also an indicator of health and strength. All in all, a bearded man has a more intimidating presence. In some jobs, they'd rather have somebody who looks like a doormat greeting their customers to better lull them into a false sense of security.

Fun fact, beards also convey an image of higher social status. Studies show that when people are asked to make estimates about the social status of people based on pictures, bearded men invariably get higher guesses from all demographics.

Interestingly, some studies have also shown that hiring managers naturally assume that a bearded man is more experienced and competent than a babyface (likely because bearded men look older). Women in positions of power also tend to find bearded men more attractive than women lower on the social ladder.

[Crescent]

I can sort of see why certain customer service jobs would pass over guys with beards. Studies have shown that people are less likely to trust a guy with facial hair. Beards convey an image of aggressiveness and confidence. Subconsciously, they're also an indicator of health and strength. All in all, a bearded man has a more intimidating presence. In some jobs, they'd rather have somebody who looks like a doormat greeting their customers to better lull them into a false sense of security.

Fun fact, beards also convey an image of higher social status. Studies show that when people are asked to make estimates about the social status of people based on pictures, bearded men invariably get higher guesses from all demographics.

Interestingly, some studies have also shown that hiring managers naturally assume that a bearded man is more experienced and competent than a babyface (likely because bearded men look older). Women in positions of power also tend to find bearded men more attractive than women lower on the social ladder.

I feel like Ive said all I needed to say. Anything else would just be me trying to defend my own tastes. Beards are just disgusting to me. Some stubble is attractive on a man however a full blown beard is repulsive. I mean I was having this discussion with some of my friends last night when I went out and some of them are business owners (hairdresser, salon owner, sales and marketing agency, casting agent and an established fashion designer with her own boutique whom had shown her collections in Sydney and London fashion week, I had also modelled for not to mention their partners whom were also present. They're all girls I went to school with. Lets just say the words 'repulsive', 'filthy', 'disgusting' and were thrown around alot. I'll give you one thing the men did say " Why cultivate it on your face when it grows on ur a$$!" So thats just a take from both men and women in power who dont fall into those stats. "Subconciously they're also an indicator of health and strength" that just wouldve made us laugh more. Or vomit.

[Heartless Angel]

Studies only indicate trends, not truths.

[loaf]

The beard has gotten a lot of attention in the last 5 years.

[nix]

Guys, The lady is allowed to not like beards and be disgusted by them, give it up?

How many of you would be grossed out at a woman sporting hairy pits, back, chest, BEARDS or legs? Some may not mind, where I would be grossed out by all of the above and I know most others would also.

[Crescent]

Studies only indicate trends, not truths.

...Then.. what was the point of those "studies" and their "trends" you put forward if they didnt hold some truth to them? then I can pull all kinds of "studies" n "trends" outta my ass too. A few of those mentioned i actually agreed with.

The beard has gotten a lot of attention in the last 5 years.

Absolutely. You dont have to like beards to not have noticed that. Someone at the dinner said the exact same thing but that doesnt mean we have to take a personal liking to them.

Guys, The lady is allowed to not like beards and be disgusted by them, give it up?

How many of you would be grossed out at a woman sporting hairy pits, back, chest, BEARDS or legs? Some may not mind, where I would be grossed out by all of the above and I know most others would also.

Thankyou Nix. Smartest fking post in this entire thread.

I think beards are disgusting get over it.

[loaf]

Nix I was hooking up with a girl who didn't shave her pits or legs. Wasn't that big of a deal.

[Clint]

" Why cultivate it on your face when it grows on ur a$$!"

So are people growing facial hair on their ass, or ass hair on their face? I wonder if it's possible to grow eyebrows on my legs, or armpit hair on my head.

That's a very weird statement. Obviously facial hair only grows on the face, which is why it's called facial hair, and not everywhere hair.

[ezio69]

Im a man and not at all fond of growing out my facial hair that's what my electric shaver's for. I always go with the clean shaven look I still look manly not to mention neater and sharper.

Plus if the f***in hottest girl here on TFF finds it repulsive and dirty (all the chicks I dated have said the same) i am more than inclined to stick to my usual clean shaven look

Go Nix

[Heartless Angel]

...Then.. what was the point of those "studies" and their "trends" you put forward if they didnt hold some truth to them? then I can pull all kinds of "studies" n "trends" outta my ass too. A few of those mentioned i actually agreed with.

To demonstrate that your own dislike of beards does not accurately reflect the opinion of the majority. People who don't like facial hair, I have noticed, often assume the rest of the world sees them as a bad thing too. Some people who actually wear beards assume that it's going to hurt them in the working world. Studies show that is simply not the case. They do not show that beards are objectively good, they merely reveal the equally worthless opinions of the majority of study subjects.

If you think I'm trying to convince you that beards are good, I'm not. I have no interest in arguing about your taste. There is no truth to be revealed in matters of taste, as such, discussing it is a waste of time. What I am arguing against the the notion, which is demonstrably false, is that beards are a detriment in the working world.

[Andromeda]

Just a reminder to keep everything civil in here. Things have been getting a little heated. So please be respectful of each others opinions.

I hear it gets hot under those beards, maybe a little thinning or shaving is in order to cool down. ;p

[Heartless Angel]

^ So nice in winter.

[Crescent]

To demonstrate that your own dislike of beards does not accurately reflect the opinion of the majority. People who don't like facial hair, I have noticed, often assume the rest of the world sees them as a bad thing too. Some people who actually wear beards assume that it's going to hurt them in the working world. Studies show that is simply not the case. They do not show that beards are objectively good, they merely reveal the equally worthless opinions of the majority of study subjects.

Look, I can sit back here and do the same your doing and pull out the ol "studies show that blah blah " till the fkng cows come home, when Im also very much speaking first hand, in my experience working, school, uni, i have never met anybody male and female, in power or not, who have ever stated, and emphasised to me, in both speaking and the written word that beards are favoured or acceptable in the working world, it was always very much the opposite ESP in the workforce. Though we are not naive enough to think everybody else, in the business world or not, might share the same view but I strongly stand by my views.

If you think I'm trying to convince you that beards are good, I'm not. I have no interest in arguing about your taste. There is no truth to be revealed in matters of taste, as such, discussing it is a waste of time.

Im glad.

EDIT: Andro do u have a beard too?

Ezio seriously if I didnt know any better Id think you have a crush on me. Nice to hear your clean shaven tho

[Andromeda]

It's actually impossible for me to grow a beard Crescent. So I guess that would be a no. ^^

[Crescent]

It's actually impossible for me to grow a beard Crescent. So I guess that would be a no. ^^

Nice.

In all honesty, Im not sure whether your male or female. But maybe thats part of your intentions hah

It seems like the argument's heated but i think we're going okay. I know some ppl on here feel the same as I but aren't putting in their 2cents they're sitting back with popcorn.

I like to see where all this goes.

[Heartless Angel]

Look, I can sit back here and do the same your doing and pull out the ol "studies show that blah blah " till the fkng cows come home, when Im also very much speaking first hand, in my experience working, school, uni, i have never met anybody male and female, in power or not, who have ever stated, and emphasised to me, in both speaking and the written word that beards are favoured or acceptable, it was always very much the opposite. Though we are not naive enough to think everybody else, in the business world or not, might share the same view but I strongly stand by my views.

I also have personal experience of it not makin a difference. There are of course people who don't like facial hair. The reason I cite studies, is because studies indicate the opinion of the majority based on consensus, and extrapolation from psychological research.

People who like beards generally do so based on subconscious implications of a beard rather than conscious thought on the matter. People who dislike beards generally do so based upon conscious consideration of the matter. It makes sense that you're going to hear people talk about things they have chosen to dislike more than you're going to hear people talking about the things they never even really gave thought to liking. Particularly when they often aren't even aware that they're being influenced by subconscious reactions to stimuli.

Your views, again, are not relevant to anything I'm talking about. There is no reason to try to defend your personal taste to me. I understand it. I am indifferent to it. You're welcome to your opinion.

[Andromeda]

In all honesty, Im not sure whether your male or female. But maybe thats part of your intentions hah

All part of my mysterious charm. ;p

That aside, I don't plan to close the thread. So the discussion can keep going. Everyone just has to keep things civil and there won't be any concerns. ^^

[LocoColt04]

I like my beard, and I am super sad I have to shave it off next month for cosplay purposes. I mean, not OFF off, but super short. Not that it'll take more than a week to get back up to a reasonable length, but still... the lower half of my face is shaped oddly and having some facial hair there is much more appealing.

I have seen some disgusting beards here and there so I understand where some of that sentiment comes from, but a well-groomed face-rug is worth having around.

[Crescent]

I also have personal experience of it not makin a difference. There are of course people who don't like facial hair. The reason I cite studies, is because studies indicate the opinion of the majority based on consensus, and extrapolation from psychological research.

People who like beards generally do so based on subconscious implications of a beard rather than conscious thought on the matter. People who dislike beards generally do so based upon conscious consideration of the matter. It makes sense that you're going to hear people talk about things they have chosen to dislike more than you're going to hear people talking about the things they never even really gave thought to liking. Particularly when they often aren't even aware that they're being influenced by subconscious reactions to stimuli.

Dont you think you overanalyse a bit too much HA? Am I being schooled on what goes on in the psyche of someone who when they see a beard..im not ruling that out to be truth but I still dont trust or take take your word for it or those studies. My experience and the people I work with I'll feed off of that.

Your views, again, are not relevant to anything I'm talking about. There is no reason to try to defend your personal taste to me. I understand it. I am indifferent to it. You're welcome to your opinion.

Me thinks doth protest too much..

[Heartless Angel]

No such thing as over-analysis. Honestly I find the notion that one can give too much thought to something, ridiculous. If there is information to be obtained, there is reason for further analysis.

Again, your experience is not pertinent to what I'm discussing, it neither supports nor refutes it. You have given conscious thought to the matter, the positive things a beard convey are not at the conscious level.

I'm not protesting, merely attempting to save you some time trying to defend that which never came under attack.

[Rowan]

Oh wow. I'm just sitting here pissing myself laughing at these posts. There are so many different personalities here clashing with their opinions and I feel like I know all of you to some degree after all this time, and that is what makes this forum so fantastic. Andro, please don't close this thread unless you feel you absolutely must. Ezio, dont do stuff just because you think it will please attractive women. Its beta and they can smell that.

Anyway, my girlfriend thinks my beard is hot and she is gorgeous.
[/argument]

[Crescent]

No such thing as over-analysis. Honestly I find the notion that one can give too much thought to something, ridiculous. If there is information to be obtained, there is reason for further analysis.

Thats true but wouldnt it be better to put that to use in an actual field instead of a forum. Alot more productive.

Again, your experience is not pertinent to what I'm discussing, it neither supports nor refutes it. You have given conscious thought to the matter, the positive things a beard convey are not at the conscious level.

Im pretty sure it does refute it even if all those people didnt participate in one "study" not as the majority anyway but even without putting my own "studies" forward to back up my views we're not going to see eye-to-eye seeing as I dont trust most of those "studies". You need to get that.

Let me get this straight.. You're trying to tell me that I dont hate beards...that I actually really like beards on a "subconscious level". haha wow. I dont know what I like.

I'm not protesting, merely attempting to save you some time trying to defend that which never came under attack.

Okk

Oh wow. I'm just sitting here pissing myself laughing at these posts. There are so many different personalities here clashing with their opinions and I feel like I know all of you to some degree after all this time, and that is what makes this forum so fantastic.

Thats the thing I noticed with TFF. You boys love it n get a kick out of silly arguments like these no activity for a lil while before u hope and grab the popcorn for the next one oh boy different story when some of u are involved isnt it

[Rowan]

Thats the thing I noticed with TFF. You boys love it n get a kick out of silly arguments like these no activity for a lil while before u hope and grab the popcorn for the next one oh boy different story when some of u are involved isnt it

pfft, if girls didnt get a kick out of it then why participate in what you think is a silly argument? Cmon, theres no need for the barbed comments, we're all friends here...most of us anyway.

[Clint]

Let me get this straight.. You're trying to tell me that I dont hate beards...that I actually really like beards on a "subconscious level". haha wow. I dont know what I like.

Past studies have found that men with beards look tougher, more aggressive and masculine, and would make better romantic partners. It is biologically proven that you, as a woman, like men with beards. This isn't a made up statistic, it's simply human behavior. Women specifically find 10-day-old beards more attractive than a clean shaven face.

If you aren't a human then this doesn't apply to you, but I'm assuming that you are.

I think I remember you stating that you find a man's jawline more attractive than a beard, which makes no sense, because with a 10-day-old beard, you will still be able to see and feel a man's jawline.

[ezio69]

pfft, if girls didnt get a kick out of it then why participate in what you think is a silly argument? Cmon, theres no need for the barbed comments, we're all friends here...most of us anyway.

Im a fairly new member here on TFF and just the time that ive spent here what crescent said is very true about the culture here. Im with a few games forums and they are nowhere near as vindictive as the members are here. As soon as somebody disagrees with the majority, the longtime members jump on you like rabid hyenas. Some online friends over on the other forums have said the same about this place that is why left its not very welcoming and very standoffish n stick to a small clique but personally im enjoying my time here. But man oh man you have got the hottest girls on here you guys. I know when guys get into an argument it gets so much worse.

[Rowan]

Im a fairly new member here on TFF and just the time that ive spent here what crescent said is very true about the culture here. Im with a few games forums and they are nowhere near as vindictive as the members are here. As soon as somebody disagrees with the majority, the longtime members jump on you like rabid hyenas. Some online friends over on the other forums have said the same about this place that is why left its not very welcoming and very standoffish n stick to a small clique but personally im enjoying my time here. But man oh man you have got the hottest girls on here you guys. I know when guys get into an argument it gets so much worse.

It doesn't matter what forum you are apart of, the same applies anywhere. Its natural for people to gang up and defend, criticize or straight out bully other people. Ive experienced it first hand on other forums, but I'm not going to say that I didn't deserve it, because when you start something, you gotta expect people are gonna disagree with you and gang up on you. I actually don't see any of that happening in this thread, I am seeing however, disagreements and arguments which is fine because everyone should have an opinion both to be criticized and discussed. What I don't agree with is that you say we have nasty members here. Don't be the new guy that comes here and tells us that we are nasty people, because we are not. You don't know me, but if you did you would know that I'm speaking truth here. I used to have that mentality about TFF and I learned that's it not really like that at all. Sometimes 2 or so members will get really heated, but the mods are always watching and do a great at job at mediating when it is necessary. Its just a matter of getting familiar with people and how they are. Dont take anything personally, because at the end of the day, you've never met, they dont know you and are just going by what you are typing and contributing to discussions.

[Crescent]

pfft, if girls didnt get a kick out of it then why participate in what you think is a silly argument? Cmon, theres no need for the barbed comments, we're all friends here...most of us anyway.

Rowan please dont try to be the mediator when your actually one of the worst instigators on here, pretty eyes and all.

In the bigger picture it really is just a silly argument on a forum with people nothing better to do than to watch n be amused by people disagreeing with eachother back n forth. But clearly u guys are finding it hard to accept that I find beards completely grotesque and believe that the majority of the business world agree with me. Studies or no studies to back me.

[Rowan]

Rowan please dont try to be the mediator when your actually one of the worst instigators on here, pretty eyes and all.

In the bigger picture it really is just a silly argument on a forum with people nothing better to do than to watch n be amused by people disagreeing with eachother back n forth. But clearly u guys are finding it hard to accept that I find beards completely grotesque and believe that the majority of the business world agree with me. Studies or no studies to back me.

I don't understand why you think we care so much about what you think? You've already accused of us prolonging a silly argument... yet here you are... again? We obviously dont care that you find beards gross, as stated several times by multiple members, many posts ago. Also, why do you detest my efforts at trying to mediate things? Its like you think my only role is to add fuel to the fire, yet you don't hear me complaining about how you are derailing this thread with nonsense.

oh crescent.