White Nations/Multiculturism/Australia's demise?

[Rowan]

I had in been in debate for several days on 4chon along with over 30 other people when someone brought up the topic Illegal immigrants in Australia. I live in Australia, so I get to know everything first hand before the rest of the world about things to do with my countries government and economy. Allow me to give you a brief discription of whats happening here.

Our country is supposedly under scrutiny by the U.N accusing us of denying refuge from foreigners fleeing their country. This is not the case. We accept refugees who come here the correct way, by waiting in the que and coming here legally. The people we do NOT want to accept and throw directly into detention centers, are those of which come here on boats ILLEGALLY. In order to come to Australia illegally it costs roughly each person about $10,000 for a spot on the boat. All the money given to the boat driver is given to his family because once he gets here, he knows that he will be imprisoned for a measly 3 years (great jurial system huh?). Once he gets out, he is deported home back to his hundreds of thousands. This happens on a weekly basis and thousands of illegal people are brought here every year and accepted because our prime minister is afraid of looking bad to the U.N.

Most recently, an illegal at one of our detention centers had sewn his mouth shut as apart of a hunger strike they had started at the detention center. He then sought legal help and actually successfully sued the Australian government for $800,000. This ILLEGAL immigrant SUED the australian government for SELF INFLICTED INJURIES.

Even furthar back, a boat of 'aslyum seekers' were on its way here and all but a few (including a little boy) died when their boat crashed into a rock and it was overthrown. The Australian government took it upon themselves to pay for the funerals, fly the little boy to sydney and grant him permanant VISA out of the goodness of our tax dollars... I mean hearts.

excuse me for the lack of sympathy, it is truly tragic what happened to this boy, but excuse me, dont you dare miss the point unlike so many other easily disctracted media eating dodo's, this isnt right. I feel sorry for the boy but our country is NOT to blame. Read furthar for more info.

When people are fleeing their supposed 'war torn' countries, they are coming on their way to Australia for a reason other than fleeing. There are countless countries and places that are perfectly safe that they pass on the way here (in fact, there are over 8 counties they pass coming to Australia), but they choose to come to Australia. They are country shopping. In Australia, they get all the benefits they wouldnt in other countries, which makes sense why they would risk their lives to come here. Most of the 'asylum seekers' that come here are over 50 and go straight onto pensions and benefits that us working class Australians are paying for in our tax dollars. This needs to stop. Our retired senior citizens here dont get the same benefits as these illegals, and that makes me sick.

Until people recognize that there is a difference between Refugees and Illegal Boat People, Our country will be forever under the strangehold of the U.N and a gutless prime minister who actually lied pre election to get into power.

I had ranted a bit more than I would have liked too, but now im closing to my point.

Someone had asked "what ever happened to White Nations?"
there was a reply "There is never been a white nation, you are speaking of something in which does not exist and clearly makes you ignorant of the benefits of multiculturism."

I then pose this question. Why is it there are Chinese nations, Arabic nations, Japanese nations, Thai nations etc, but there cant be a white nation because its racist? We can have 'black pride day and black television' but the idea of having a 'white television' or 'white pride day' is absurb and incredibly racist.

One other thing. When Australia was founded for all of you out there who dont know the truth, it was originally going to be a place to dump criminals. But then they had decided "wait, we can actually live here its kinda nice" Then a nation was born. We are not a nation of criminals, that is Absurd. We had partnered with the aboriginies and tried to live in harmony but their cultural customs and ideas clashed with ours. Which caused many fights and misunderstandings. The language barrier did not help. To this very day, this land belongs to the aborigines. We just made it a country, thats all. Aborigines get certain benefits from the government in order to adjust to a new liftestyle, thats all. We live in harmony and almost ALWAYS have. rabbit proof fence is an example of australian government trying to help a certain few, but was misunderstood and was made out like we were evil.

I shall continue...

My ultimate point is, that Australia was founded as a white nation, an English colony who then colonized with the aboriginees to live in harmony. The term "multicultural" was first used in 1973 in Australia. However, the government didn't officially implement multicultural policies until 1978. since 1978 until now, We have experienced much crime, less jobs and a hell of a lot of flack from other nations accusing us of being racist.

Now our tax dollars are paying for arabic prayer centers, Muslim only Pools, spas, specilist shops, community centers, churches etc We have "Halal" Hungry jacks which will not serve bacon to anyone. So we now have places that will refuse the sale of bacon and certain meats to anyone even if they arn't muslim. This might not sound like much, but I can assure you there is much more but I feel you might have the point already. Much of the country has changed and is not stopping.


My questions are:
Why is there Multicultirism and how does it benefit a country?
Is the white man truly the target of racial accusation?
Should Australian taxes be put towards religious minorities? When I say this, I refer to the 'muslim only' centers and buildings, etc.

[Furore]

Multiculturalism gives us some flavour.
I can eat foods from many different nations any day of the week very conveniently.
I've also noticed those from different backgrounds bring different view points to the table which is very beneficial to some industries.

My view on the topic is that I'd love to see illegal immigrants shipped back. Those who apply legitimately from whichever country are more then welcome, they've earned it. I can't help but get pissed off by the recent trends in cyber crusaders bitching about the rights of illegal immigrants and cattle when we have more than enough issues within our own border that need addressing. The amount of homeless here who recieve aid? 4%. WTF? They're Australians and get less help then asylum seekers. And the way our system works they're screwed. They need a residential address to recieve government aid (which they don't have), they can't get a job as they lack the tools needed for job seeking and hardly anyone spares them a though. And look at Aborigines in the NT. Many of them are also screwed over by the government. Screw that shit.

As for Halaal/Kosher foods and all that, if someone wants those, fine. There's always a hundred other places that won't offer such foods. The only thing that would get me up in arms is if they attempted to force their religion on others and apart from a few extremists, none would do that as Islam is a peaceful religious. I work with a good amount of Muslims and all are pretty cool, even if a few get disgusted when I eat a delicious cheese and bacon sandwich. But they won't bother me about it, just as I won't bother them for eating Halaal.

[Unknown Entity]

As for Halaal/Kosher foods and all that, if someone wants those, fine. There's always a hundred other places that won't offer such foods. The only thing that would get me up in arms is if they attempted to force their religion on others and apart from a few extremists, none would do that as Islam is a peaceful religious. I work with a good amount of Muslims and all are pretty cool, even if a few get disgusted when I eat a delicious cheese and bacon sandwich. But they won't bother me about it, just as I won't bother them for eating Halaal.

To me, there's no difference between non-halaal and halaal. Looks the same, tastes the same, does the same job in my stomach, and etc. I wouldn't say it was thrusting religious beliefs on someone by having the option there. It's not like I'm a rat, and I'm eating rat poison by eating it.

Quite honestly, I agree that people who seek asylum illegally should be sent back. There's ways and procedures that can get you somewhere else in the world that's much safer and better for you. Being transported in a steel container, with no food, water, light, fresh air or a guarantee I'll live at the end of it for days or weeks? Also, I'd hate to move to a country, and have to hide in the shadows my whole life there out of fear of being caught.

I think everyone has enough crap going on at home without having to worry or cater for people who couldn't wait in line and follow procedure.

I do think white people get a lot of stick when it comes to racism, but that's not really a surprise considering our history. That's not to say I think white people are the only people who can be racist shitbags, because anyone can be. I know many different people who're racist, one in particular who holds hate and resentment towards his own race.

[Rowan]

As for Halaal/Kosher foods and all that, if someone wants those, fine. There's always a hundred other places that won't offer such foods. The only thing that would get me up in arms is if they attempted to force their religion on others and apart from a few extremists, none would do that as Islam is a peaceful religious.

The thing is, there are numerous fast food chains who are taking on the Halal stamp of approval in their food. There are more than a few hungry jacks in melbourne and sydney that are Halal and will not serve you or anyone bacon or pork in the burgers. If it was an option, it would be okay. But they are actually taking the option away from everyone. That is something I have a problem with. While it may seem like a small thing, its just an example of things to come. To be honest, I didnt think HJ would go for that =/

And also, its not fair that people look at you disgusted for eating bacon, pork or even meat for that matter. Its just not fair on you. That just goes to show they have no respect. Once again, its not everyone but its definitly there.

Also something else that made me sick, was the amount of people cheering and celebrating the destruction of the two towers in the streets of the city in melbourne. Some people were taken away by police for beating on those people. Where is the justice?

[Furore]

It's not me they look on with revulsion, it's the bacon.
I have the same feeling of disgust for foods I don't like. XD
I do think it sucks about those fast food places in Sydney though.
They should offer non Halaal stuff for us pig munching non-Muslims.
But it has had some benefits for our health too. Instead of frying some of our takeaway in fattier oils they now use sunflower oil for instance.

And Gemma, Halaal and non-Halaal taste alike. It's just they don't eat some foods and require other meats be prepared a certain way and things like that. My only problem lies with what Rowan mentioned if true. Having the options there to eat what you want is a good thing.

[Heartless Angel]

I'm sure throughout the course of this discussion I'll find a way to piss at least one person off, so apologies in advance. Now that that's out of the way...

To be perfectly blunt, all the racial diversity, multicultuaralism, and all this other bullcrap tolerance nazis try to shove down the worlds throat makes me sick. They aren't supporting equality in any way shape or form. What these people support is special priveleges given to people because of their race, age, sexual orientation, whatever their group may be. Which is funny, because this is the exact thing minorities were AGAINST when they actually had a right to be pissed off at white people, because white people were giving these things to themselves. But now it's cool to give special priveleges to other people for no better reason than their race? Irony fail much? Turning the problem around does not fix it. I am honestly appalled by the staggering number of people who don't realize this.

Why is there Multicultirism and how does it benefit a country?

Yeah, there are some undeniable advantages, foods and such from other cultures that don't exist where we are and things of that nature... but really, do things like stack up against the disadvantages? Why do we never talk about the disadvantages by the way? They're there I assure you. Many wars in history have been caused by two cultures meeting one another and not agreeing with each others beliefs. Think where society might be if we'd never had to waste men's lives on wars, or thinkers' lives inventing weapons or coming up with battle plans. People would've been free to spend their lives doing more meaningful things, and thinking more meanigful thoughts, possibly leading to more inventions, more advanced technology, more philosophers answering the great questions in life, any number of things, in fact, many of the same things we allegedly have because of multiculturalism.

Some might argue that some people wouldn't have the same technology as other cultures, we wouldn't all have the same ideas, and we wouldn't advance together, but a claim like this actually makes me think of Star trek. Nerdy example, yes, but think about it. Multiple races, humans, Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, whatever. All from different planets entirely, completely ignorant of each other until they're able to achieve practical space travel and exploration. Not once before this did any of them benefit from interactions with the others, yet they all still achieved mostly equal technology for medicine, communication, and space travel. They all had their own philosophers, their own ideas, their own everything. They got along just fine without each other. In all likelihood, the same would be true of culture isolated on the same planet. They'd advance in their own time, yes. They'd advance differently, but they'd all advance. And they'd all be satisfied with their cultures.

Yes, diversity may well speed up new ideas spreading around the world ... but, on the reverse side, cultures interacting cause conflicts. For every moment we speed up advancement as a species from interaction with another culture, we slow it right back down with some idiotic conflict caused by that same interaction. Is it really an advantage? It's not so clear as one might think without really getting deeper into the subject.

I won't straight up say multiculturalism is bad, or even only on par with total cultural isolation, it may well be that we wouldn't be where we are without other cultures, but I will say I'm skeptical about creditting multiculturalism with as much as people sometimes like to.

Is the white man truly the target of racial accusation?

YES.

Does China complain about the lack of hispanic people in China? No.
Does Spain or Mexico complain about the lack of hispanic people in China? No.
Does the rest of the world complain about the lack of hispanic people in China? No.
Nobody cares about the racial diversity of a Chinese nation, but damn those racist white people for not welcoming illegals with open arms and free money.

Does anybody call it racist to have a hispanic or black scholarship? No.
If I tried to start a scholarship program and specifically stated it was for white people only, would I have every minority and is grandma calling me racist? You'd better blieve I would.

Is it perfectly acceptable to have places that only allow minorites such as muslim only pools? Most of society apparently thinks so.
Was it acceptable to have special buildings for white people only? Apparently not, because damn near every black man in America was protesting against it, and it was made illegal.

Is it cool to have restaraunts that only serve kosher/halaal food with no options there specifically for people who don't choose to eat only those foods? Well of course it is! Kosher/Halaal is a part of somebody's religion! If a nom muslim or jew doesn't like it, they can just eat somewhere else!
Is it then OK for a restaraunt to have a menu that caters to average white people who by and large don't care and like their bacon? Not if a Jew or a Muslim decides they want to eat there.
If I, a white person have beliefs that only allow me to eat pizza, and I walked into a taco bell and complained that their menu wasn't supportive of my beliefs, do you think they'd change their menu for me? Or do you think they'd direct me to the pizza hut next door? I'm guessing the latter. Because the latter makes sense. If a place doesn't serve the food I want to eat, I don't eat there. They don't give a shit if I'm Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Athiest, whathaveyou, it doesn't matter. They're not going to change for me, they shouldn't have to change for anybody else.
And, you know I notice there aren't many Muslims in Iraq demanding bacon stores for non muslims. They seem to be happy with just their culture, but white people can't make the same choice, that's racist. Right. Makes perfect sense.

The REAL racists are minorities who believe they're entitled to special privelges for their race, and anybody who has the nerve to tell them we're not going to live our lives around someone else's beliefs is an evil racist.

Should Australian taxes be put towards religious minorities? When I say this, I refer to the 'muslim only' centers and buildings, etc.

**** no. Places should never be restricted to people of a certain race or religion. Equality is a two way street. If you want to tell me I can't have a "NO MUSLIMS" sign in my window, you'd better be willing to take the "MUSLIMS ONLY" sign out of yours.

The idea of people's money, people of all races and relgions reagrdless of whether or not they're actually able to use these things they're unwillingly pay for is just beyond insane.

[Furore]

Well, I think I should mention something I've observed.
In the parts of Australia where people of all ethnicities are thoroughly mixed, everyone's cool with eachother and some of us (like yours truly), don't even really notice race.

The only problems we have here with conflicting cultures are in a few suburbs (parts of Sydney come to mind), where a single ethnic group starts living out as a majority. Even then there might be no dramas, but unfortunately where this happens, half the time another majority community pops up nearby and when the two countries (areas) weren't co-operating elsewhere, certain types of crime can go up a ton.

[Aerif]

It does sound funny to say it out loud but nowadays it does seem like White Christians (incl. Atheists with Christian morales) are more openly discriminated against than other ethnic or religious groups.

I'm all for equality (except for a few crazy ideas such as 'marriage' being a religious thing, and not a registry office thing - call them partnerships or something I don't care), but eqaulity should mean equality. You can't offer scholarships for only black students or have special ethnic minority representation on a councilling body (Gemma, Nathan, I'm sure you remember that awful manifesto ). That's not equal.

As a student looking for part-time work, I often see shops filled with African or Indian staff. Sure, they should get the jobs if they are better candidates but I've been in places like McDonalds where they have more ethnic staff members than white staff members. 98% of the population of Scotland is white. Sometimes it feels as though certain employers employ ethnic minorities just to avoid looking like they are racist.

As for Halal food, I eat it. Mainly because I like Indian food which is usually Halal, and my favourite baguette shop is Halal. Though I do think there should be a non-Halal alternative offered in the interest of those who disagree with the process (deemed by British Animal Rights group as torture and sometimes), or in the case of some Sikhs and Hindus, are banned from eating food that has gone throught the process. Also sometimes the slaughter is proclaimed in the name of Allah, which seems a little backwards.

As for the questions, since I feel I may be rambling a little...

Why is there Multicultirism and how does it benefit a country?

Multiculturism exists because it is difficult to uproot and leave every aspect of your lifestyle behind. You shouldn't have to abandon your beliefs based on your current geographical location. Sure, there may be some things you need to stop (such as things that are illegal in your new location), but are you going to make radical cultural changes to your lifestyle?

I can imagine some people saying yes, without any thought. But have you ever been to a foreign country? I have, and I found myself gravitating towards Scottish/British owned bars and resteraunts. That's why ethnic minoritys keep their ethnic communties in foreign lands. It's familiar.

Multiculturism has created the modern world. European exploration brought various technologies to other countries, sometimes the existing cultures where wiped out or reduced greatly (North America for example), but the Middle East enjoys the conveniances of modern-day technologies and fashions made popular by European culture whilst still maintaining Middle Eastern culture.

Multiculturism only becomes a disadvantage when diversity isn't natural, or is forced.

Is the white man truly the target of racial accusation?

Yes. That much is obvious.

Case in point, the N-word versus 'cracker'. The latter is often intended to be as offensive as the former, and is allowed. In fact, it was reguarly spoken on 'Scrubs', try using the former on that progamme and see what would've happened.

Should Australian taxes be put towards religious minorities? When I say this, I refer to the 'muslim only' centers and buildings, etc.

Yes and no. A country's taxes should be used for the citizens of that country. Australian Muslims have a right to have their religious requirements taken care of and there should be a proportional amount of funding from the government in the building of a mosque assuming that the building of a church recieves some government funding.

If money is going towards diversity then the project has to include diversity. Muslim-only buildings should be privately funded, since there is some indirect discrimination towards non-Muslims, something that Australia should not encourage. However, if there was a Muslim equivalent to the Pope, and he decided to visit Australia on an official visit that could be attended by non-Muslims, then I would agree with government funding.

There will of course be many who believe in complete seperation of church and state. But that's silly, religion is more important than nationality for many people.