Ukranian-Russo War

[Zargabaath]

So, I am over in Japan for work, drinking a Chu-Hi (a wonderful Japanese alcoholic beverage) watching coverage of this thread's title conflict. I thought to stop by this site, see if anyone had started a thread and since not, start one to get some other perspectives. I have not been on frequently at all and by chance many months ago did I find where TFF had moved. I hope to dredge up some members and create some discussion.

As I reflect during the coverage, my emotions swirl and I find myself torn. It is exceedingly disheartening to see Ukraine invaded; Putin's excuses, better put lies, of genocide in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions along with Kyiv being run drug users and neo-nazis is straight out of dictator's playbook, laughably on par with a B-movie. With that, reality is much starker and Ukraine, along with her people, are suffering from Russia's actions.

I feel for Ukraine and see Russia, specifically Putin, as a blatant aggressor. Yet, I don't know what the U.S. could have done and do now to assist Ukraine. After finally getting out of Afghanistan after 20 years, not even sure what is the deal with Iraq, is the U.S. largely withdrawn, I know not, but at least for me, there is fatigue. Must the U.S. jump into another conflict after leaving our longest? At the same time, I see this belligerence and would want us to respond but my aforementioned feeling creeps in. There was a sentiment that I recall during the Bush II years of America being too much of a world police however, the EU or Europe in general has not wanted to step into the spotlight for a dispute in their backyard. In this regard, Ukraine is not a NATO member, so we, members of NATO, do not have an alliance to assist in their defense though I find it comically hollow when officials of NATO state in a press release that NATO will defend every inch of their territory. While that is assuring to NATO members sharing a border with Russia, it offers no consolation or aid to Ukraine. I have not seen or read any reports that Putin would expand his war to NATO members, primarily Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland via thru Belarus. If anyone has reputable articles I am interested.


To me, it is reminiscent of the years prior to World War II. World leaders acquiescing to Hitler, now Putin, when he takes control over small portions of countries, Ossetia in Georgia and Crimea of Ukraine to now invading Ukraine. As if Europe failed to learn its lesson from 85 or so years ago. But it comes back to that they do not have treaties with Ukraine that bound them as what happened in the Great War. They are wary that this provocation could bring a cascading effect if they were drawn into war and create World War III. Perhaps, they don't have the stomach to stand up, but who realistically wants a state of conflict where the atrocities of war are afflicted upon humankind? There are war-hawks but do they go to the front lines to live the reality they desire or sit comfortably away watching the destruction? Unlike in events leading to World War I, as mentioned, there are no shared-defense treaties with Ukraine thus, no obligation to respond and bring the clouds of war to Europe once again. Hence I cannot fault too much that they do not respond more aggressively.

Currently a SWIFT sanction is being held up by Germany, at least according to CNN's coverage and I did hear from them as well that Delta ended their partnership Aeroflot, of the SkyTeam Alliance, plus the U.K. said, "no Russian commercial airliner could use their airspace". Which I feel the rest of NATO should follow suit. No Russian aircraft allowed in their airspace. No flights to Russia and nothing coming from Russia. I would as well block all Russian nationals from entering their country (including the US), I too think the U.S. should not allow Russian airliners or have flights to Russia. Do not be confused that I wish to depart those within who have some green card equivalency, however if they had left for some reason or another, in that case, I would prohibit their re-entry. Russia must be made a pariah. If they are to make war upon the people of Ukraine then those who oppose such brazen actions, while they may not take up arms themselves in the defense of Ukraine, should make it unbearably difficult for Russia, its companies and nationals.

While President Biden before-hand said that we do not wish to have war with the Russian people, that our qualms are with their government, I feel this is naive. This post World War II notion of not declaring war on the country, trying to limit the destruction and the civilian casualties has hindered, at least, America's military efforts since. Russia has declared war on Ukraine and in response war, in the shape and scope that the West has chosen, should be against the country of Russia - no compartmentalization.

I must end here. I may think of more to add, but I must get going. I look forward to the discussion and others' input.

[BronzeHeart92]

Down with Putin!

[Zargabaath]

I may think Putin is bad for Russia, primarily, and the international community at large. In the Intellectual Discussion of TFF, a post requires a bit more than "Down with Putin". I agree with the sentiment, however it offers nothing to the conversation at large. I am hoping to get more in-depth, to include those who may be supportive or at least understanding of Russia's actions.

If you, BronzeHeart, illustrated more of your position that would be nice. But in this section of the board curt responses are not the norm.

A bit of an update: I am happy to see more European countries and Canada, I believe, not allow Russian airliners and aircraft in their airspace. I would hope America would join even if, with the previous countries' actions, it would make it nigh impossible for Russian airliners or aircraft to enter American airspace. I believe I saw that SWIFT was going to be blocked from Russian banks, though I may be mistaken.


At least according to the news outlets, the Ukrainian resistance has been admirable and a hinderance to Russian objectives. Praise to those soldiers who fight against these invaders! In America, we have the luxury of natural obstacles, two great oceans, that makes it extremely difficult for such a maneuver. It takes a lot to shake off a normal life to engage in combat to defend what is precious to a person.

Reports are saying that the Ruble is dropping which may, hopefully, cause unrest in the motherland that is Russia. So much, that Putin will have to acknowledge and subsequently act appropriately to ease the burden of the Russian people. Though, who can be certain that he would even care about the plebians of his country. He may view installing a puppet in Ukraine more beneficial then his peoples' welfare. That he may have Belarus and Ukraine under his thumb, to protect his western flank. Bill Maher had something interesting to say on his recent episode, that we should have handled the end of the Soviet Union differently. Instead of Germany at the end of the Great War, we should have handled akin to Germany and Japan at the end of the second World War. Where we more accepting and welcoming. Then perhaps, Russia during the beginning of its post-Soviet Union era, would have turned out differently. But, who is to say. History has been writ and humanity must march forth.

Ukraine's determinants to defend their land is applaudable, their grit has been truly inspiring. Will they continue to survive a Russian offensive, I know not, but I wish them the best.

P.S. If anything seem wonky, please excuse me as I have had a couple Chu-His and beers.