Reply With QuoteThen I do apologize and stand corrected. It is your cohort loaf who is on fact from Texas, if I am not again mistaken?
I admit some of my views may be wrong. I'm not that smart. My last post, however, were facts that I knew, which I researched before I made the post, to ensure everything I was saying was correct. You can go on thinking that I'm wrong and you're right, but that doesn't necessarily make it true, and it's arrogant for you to insinuate that.
Also, might I add, and I'm surprised you didn't comment on this issue, I mentioned the death toll by police between black people and white people, but failed to mention the differences in population size between black people and white people. See, that would have been a good argument point, which would have opened up an entirely new sub-topic of discussion. But you didn't even bring it up, so I assume it isn't going to be a point.
Also, thank you for assuming that you know which state I'm from. The most racist state in America is Texas. Then Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, Florida, and Illinois. So that's the top ten. I'm from Delaware, born and raised. We're one of the most violent states, with one of the largest number of murders per capita, and the city where I live, Wilmington, is listed as the most dangerous small city in the country, but we're not even close to being the most racist state.
Last edited by Clint; 06-15-2015 at 06:38 AM.
Then I do apologize and stand corrected. It is your cohort loaf who is on fact from Texas, if I am not again mistaken?
Dylan Roof was recently arrested for his "racial terrorism." I watched the footage of that arrest...
This is a deeply disturbed, violent child who walked into a Bible study armed with a semi-automatic handgun, and slaughtered nine people... (In order to start a "Race War". Because, there is no issue with race in America. It's not a factor in the recent events, or the topic of this thread.)
But if you didn't know this, and just had the arrest tape to go by, you might have an entirely different impression about this animal.
The tone of the arrest was comparable to a routine traffic stop... He stood comfortably as police stood around idly, and handcuffs were gently place around his wrists. He wasn't slammed on the ground, he wasn't mishandled in the least, in fact. No guns were drawn... You would have never guessed he had just murdered nine innocent church-goers less than a week before...
But Dylan Roof is a 90lbs white kid... He isn't a threatening person by nature.
Michael Brown? That piece of shit deserved to die, right?
Freddy Grey, degenerate scum; he won't be missed. Right?
A young black male was recently gunned down for having headphones in while a cop was talking to him. He was a university student, described by many as a great kid with a bright future. But some gung-ho cop shot him dead out of a fleeting suspicion that he might have a gun... (Watch the video for yourselves, this cop is a complete idiot who should never have had a badge. As a man who carries a 9mil every day, he should know well the weight of the average pistol, and the level of visibility it creates when concealed in a waistband. The kid's pants were hanging around his ass cheeks. There was no way in hell that kid had a plastic capgun in his waistband, let alone a firearm.)
Dylan Roof GUNNED DOWN NINE PEOPLE... But he got a dignified, easy-does-it arrest...
I am the only way...
I am the only truth...
And I am the only life...
You need only open your eyes and see it...
The only difference being that Dylan didnt resist arrest.
This is personal for you, Rowan. You're unable to disconnect and examine facts. You're completely bias toward law enforcement. So no matter what you say, it's just your opinion.
Show us any case where a white person was murdered in cold blood in a situation where they had broken no laws, and had no weapons.
Resisting arrest has never, and will never be punishable by death.
Both Michael Brown and Freddy Grey, as Rowan said, resisted arrest. Dylan Roof did not. His treatment during his arrest had nothing to do with race. Lee Boyd Malvo, the DC Sniper, was given the exact same treatment. Nobody made a big racial fuss about that one, even though that was a black guy, racially motivated, killing people of a different race. He was labeled as a criminal and a murderer. The fact that he was racist was generally left out of the media coverage (because apparently racism is only immoral if you're white?) It doesn't matter that he's racist, just as it doesn't matter if Dylan Roof is racist. He's a criminal and a murderer. If Dylan Roof killed a group of white people, the situation wouldn't be any better, because nine people would still be dead at the hands of a psychopath with a gun. Though the media wouldn't have covered it nearly as in depth, because to them, white people are expendable, and their deaths don't buy ratings.
If your point is that people of different races are treated differently within society, under the law, they are not. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the United Nations in 1948, and recognized by the United States, declares that everybody has equal rights under the law. If a cop shot a black kid for wearing headphones, then that officer will be investigated on homicide charges, and proper legal action will be taken against him to determine a fair and just punishment.
There are plenty of incidents of unarmed white people being gunned down by police. The media doesn't cover it, because nobody cares about white people.Originally Posted by OutlawTorn
Last edited by Clint; 06-24-2015 at 06:43 PM.
Whats ironic is that I am actually stating a fact. I dont particularly like law enforcement, OT. I've been bottled, had my car smashed up and all sorts of things. Everytime I went to the cops, I never got any justice and the crooks always got away with it. This is how you know I am not biased.
Believe me, if money wasn't involved, I wouldn't have gone to the cops. Instead, I would have made my own justice.
You sound so racist right now it's sickening.
It matters because there is an issue, dating back to 1865, and to be fair, long before that, with racial oppression, typically toward African Americans.
Okay. Let's pretend you're too stupid to see my point. That point being that white cops approach black people with a different mentality. Not always, "I'm racist, so I'm going to be an asshole about his." But, "Blacks are more intimidating and prone to violence and having weapons of some kind (see post by ZRO on page 1 for statistics)."
Let's pretend you're an idiot, and not a clown trying so hard to prove me wrong you'll do and say anything, ignoring anything I say.
There are plenty of cases, but you can't name even one... Nice job, Mogenar.
Let me promote ignorance by handing you the numbers, since you've clearly never looked into this issue (as you seem to believe it hasn't existed for over 100 years).
In 1994, Congress ordered the Attorney General to begin gathering any and all data related to use of excessive force by police agencies nation-wide. This was never properly done. In fact, the FBI doesn't even do this at all.
Take that for what you will, I'm not a professor here to break things down for you. This is supposed to be an intellectual discussion, not a thread where we disregard anything people say, reiterating our own lopsided opinions. That's called a debate, and you'd be losing.
The Guardian recently did a study on police brutality and excessive force (because it's just NOT an issue, period. Eastwood has spoken.)
They found that agencies were killing at TWICE the rate calculated by US Government (based on data provided... Hmmmm. That's shady... But Eastwood has spoken.)
Black Americans are more than twice as likely to be unarmed when killed during encounters with police as white people, according to a Guardian investigation which found 102 of 464 people killed so far this year in incidents with law enforcement officers were not carrying weapons.
Millions of taxpayer dollars fund training so officers learn how to handle themselves, and situations where suspects resist arrest without the use of deadly force. Clearly the training is for shit, or there's another issue...
An analysis of public records, local news reports and Guardian reporting found that 32% of black people killed by police in 2015 were unarmed, as were 25% of Hispanic and Latino people, compared with 15% of white people killed.
You understand? Try putting a spin on this one, but before you do, I'm not done yet.
The figures illustrate how disproportionately black Americans, who make up just 13% of the country’s total population according to census data, are killed by police. Of the 464 people counted by the Guardian, an overwhelming majority – 95% – were male, with just 5% female.
I know you have a difficult putting things together, Clint, but it's in basic terminology, using small numbers. But since I know you'll ignore everything I say, someone else would like to weigh in.
Steven Hawkins, the executive director Amnesty International USA, described the racial imbalance as “startling”. Hawkins said: “The disparity speaks to something that needs to be examined, to get to the bottom of why you’re twice as likely to be shot if you’re an unarmed black male.”
The Great Mr. Steven Hawkins, Supreme Lord of the Universe, has spoken... And you damn well better have learned something!
Now for the renegade Aussie:
No, I know, Ro... I get it buddy. You've made it abundantly clear. Criminals are less than human and deserve to be killed in the streets like wild animals. And if you're black, you likely deserved it, because cops CANNOT make mistakes, though you allegedly dislike them.
Perhaps flip back to page one and read your previous submissions to this discussion.
Easy Steven Seagal! You might be the next degenerate criminal killed in the streets, having people not unlike yourself talking about how "he deserved it. If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to worry about."
OT & Hawkins, OUT!
Black Americans killed by police twice as likely to be unarmed as white people | US news | The Guardian
Well that's pretty much the point of racism, isn't it? Lets look at this. I wasn't being racist in the slightest, but the fact that I'm white, with views about racism differentiating from what mass media tells everybody, that makes me a racist.
I suggest you read the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as well as the United Nation's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. There hasn't been racial oppression in America for 51 years.
Let's pretend you go **** yourself.
I would have to do research, because those cases aren't covered by news outlets. You are a perfect example of somebody who buys into what media says. Nobody cares about white people. I'll find a case, but you won't care.
Police kill more whites than blacks, but minority deaths generate more outrage: analysis - Washington Times
There you go. From a reliable source, too.
You so ferociously deny the FACT of systemic and broad racism in America, it's pathetic.
It's not about public outrage, media coverage, or what group is killed more! Are you that stupid?
There's only 3 logical explanations here:
1: You're so sheltered and ignorant, you honestly have no understanding of the biggest social issue in your own country.
2: You are too loyal of a patriot to admit that there is a serious, grotesque problem in America on all levels of government and society (not just toward blacks, but homosexuals, Arabs, Hispanics, asians, the list goes on.)
3: Or 3rd... Well, we all know where 3 is going.
So far you have done everything in your power to discredit me, while addressing and countering very few of the points I've made, twisting and dancing around the ones you have.
You have nothing. The Washington Times is a corporate propaganda machine, Mogenar. And you tell me I'm a slave to media?
More white might be killed than blacks, but twice as many blacks slain by cops are UNARMED!
Can you read and understand English?
Steen Hawkins is the smartest man in North America... He's worth several hundred of you on his worst day.
He looked at the data produced by The Guardian, and if he could see a major issue here, I'll take his word over the Washington Times.
Be a man about this. The more you speak, the more racist you sound. You won't even acknowledge racism, at all. That means you're part of the problem, Mogenar.
I'm not denying anything, but you're certainly denying racism against white people.
How the **** am I??
Dear god you're an idiot!!!
If Blacks had owned white slaves for hundreds of years, freed then oppressed them for well over 100 years stretching right on into 2015, the completion of this discussion would be much different, you blithering, closet-racist half-wit.
Hit me Staff! I'm ready to go again.
How can I deny something if I'm a victim of it? You labeled me as a racist for simply mentioning racist issues. This is why there's no progress with racism. Nobody can talk about it without personal insults being thrown around.
It is, apparently, because when minorities are killed by white people, both media and society have a field day about it. They propose changes to the current system to help benefit racial tensions. But when a white person is killed by a minority through racially motivated crimes, nobody cares. When was the last time anybody rioted over the unlawful, racially motivated death of an unarmed white person in police custody? The answer is never.
You're not even American, so everything you think you know about America is hearsay. Live in America for 26 years like I have, or at least learn our ****ing laws about racial issues. Maybe then you'll actually have a valid point.
Too loyal of a patriot? Based off of what? Sarcastic comments I've posted on this forum in regards to my supposed patriotism? I'd much rather live in Norway.
Not only is the Washington Times a reliable source for information, it's less biased than the Washington Post or New York Times. But if you want to sit there and blatantly deny that I provided you with information, be my guest. Isn't that the exact same thing you accused me of doing?
Yes, but that wasn't your point. Your point was that literally no unarmed white person has ever been killed by police, which I disproved and you denied, so **** you.
Right, because the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is sooooooo oppressive. The Employment Non-Discrimination Act is sooooo oppressive. The Civil Rights Act of 1968, the Civil Rights Act of 1991, the Equal Pay Act of 1963, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, they're so oppressive! Goddamn, that ****ing reconstruction act following the Civil War didn't help anybody at all.
I'm not even certain where to begin with this argument, as there isn't a clear start to where the debate ended and the insults began, but I'd like to remind you that the ideals of this subforum are to converse WITHOUT insult or belittling your peers. You wanna argue? Take it to General Chat. You wanna debate without cheap shots? Resume as scheduled. All I know is, the two of you clearly disagree AND THAT IS OKAY, but the manner in which you are doing so is disrupting the "Intellectual Discussion" which is meant to be taking place here.
I guess that's a fundamental difference between us, Leastwood. I don't operate on hearsay, and I don't have to live in a country for 26 years to know about it.
I've been to 36 States, including Deleware! I hold an American citizenship. I've spent about 3 of my 30 years travelling, and yes, living in America with my brother in Colorado.
You bring up civil rights acts like it's news to me. You're so naive about this it's irrational, to the point of a fault. You have not once acknowledged that racial oppression is an issue. NEVER!
You claim to be a victim of it, but no one knows who or what you are. You're probably Caucasian for **** sake. I'm white as white can be, and I suffered at the hands of black kids in my town growing up, but I have never claimed to be a victim. My ancestors weren't whipped from Dawn til dusk in cotton fields for hundreds of years.
You've shown a repeated inability to acknowledge, using words, that racism is a very real, very present issue in modern America. The most you've allowed is a few comments about racism toward Caucasians...
Are you ****ing high?
I'm checking out before feelings really get hurt around here.
~ AUTO-MERGED POSTS ~
No, it's not okay. He refuses to face the truth. That's not okay when it comes to an issue so prominent and undeniable.
This is why racism exists in 2015, because of sub-intellectuals like Leastwood saying, "No. No! That's not a thing. We passed laws 100 years ago that say that's not a thing."
Last edited by OutlawTorn; 06-25-2015 at 12:37 PM.
Does it really have to be acknowledged? I disagree with the ways that racism is portrayed in the media, and that was the point. The media portrays violence against minorities, because that's the type of stuff that fuels anger. They portray excessive police violence against minorities, and perhaps all of it's accurate to an extent, but televised media portrays controversial things in order to gain ratings. They don't care if they're bending the truth or causing people to believe exaggerations of actual situations, because they're profiting off of it.
These issues seem to be not with militarization of the police, but a different subject entirely. We can start a thread about racial biases and the media, but that would be a discussion for another time.
Not only that, I did acknowledge that racial oppression is an issue, though my stance on that is a bit different from yours. Your stance places minorities in the role of the victim, but everybody is a victim of racial bias, and that would be a good issue for this country to address.
I'm a human. The color of my skin is irrelevant. Everybody is a victim of racism.
Yes, because racism towards white people has never been properly addressed. If it is addressed, typically you're classified as a racist for doing so, which is why nobody goes there. That leads into another interesting tidbit, unrelated to anything being addressed in this thread. Black people in America have black pride. They even have a month for it. But if you're white, and you have white pride, you're a supremacist. This country is full of double standards.
Which leads back into the militarization of police. People are being patronized to no extent. Whether the militarization of police is simply due to racially motivated anger sparking civil unrest, and the police responding by using more force, or people in general just becoming more angry, causing more violence, especially in urban areas. The police respond to violence by implementing more force. The media keeps racism alive and well in the minds of everybody. Everybody is essentially programmed to hate people that are different. That sparks racially motivated criminal activity. Racism itself isn't the problem, it's the people controlling social issues.
Your dodgy, evasive bullshit isn't fooling anyone, kid.
kek
I flipped back but couldnt find anything about myself saying criminals are less than human, deserve to be killed like animals, or that black people deserve it. So it would appear you are mistaken.
Well if i went rogue and went for my own justice and got caught, yeah sure you are correct. The law can be pretty messed up, and I've given an example of how im not biased, specifically adhering to this very point.
Dylan didnt resist arrest, the others did. Theres no amount of statistics you can reference that will disprove this fundemental point.
I tend to avoid discussions that have devolved into emotional shitflinging contests, but this really needs to end.
As usual, my favorite obviously biased news source The Guardian, has twisted the numbers on you. The percentages they gave you for the unarmed percentage were accurate, but omitted an important corrective factor, the difference in sampling size. 15% of 2000 and 30% of 1000 are actually the same number. Whites actually aren't fairing much better than blacks. It also fails to correct for the population size of black and white criminals. While whites account for 6x as much of the population, blacks account for a little more than 1/3 of the criminal charges. Go figure, they account for around third of police killings. There are a lot more factors you could adjust for to round this statistic out, not the least of which would be socioeconomic standing. Dumping everything on race based on The Guardians willingnes to omit data to push its agenda is just lazy induction.
The citation of Hawking is plainly fallacious, as he is not an expert in this field. Even if he were, his opinion does not give any additional logical weight to your position. Smart people are wrong about shit all the time. Hawking has even been wrong WITHIN his field of expertise, and would be the first to tell you that. This is why we reject the appeal to authority in a debate.
Our ancestors as white people have never been enslaved for hundreds of years at a time? That has to be amongst the most ignorant things said in this discussion so far. Did you know there was human history even before the United States came to be? If you're white, I can just about guarantee you that at some point one of your ancestors called a Roman Dominus. They weren't just whipped. They were beaten, used as sex slaves, put in gladiatorial arenas and forced to fight to the death for their master's amusement, crucified as a relatively common punishment... Greeks, Berbers, Germans, Britons, Slavs, Thracians, Gauls, Jews, Arabs, and several others have all been known to be enslaved by the Roman empire. Willing to bet every white guy in this discussion can find a race they've descended from on that list. And they didn't get out of it after one war. There were 3 Servile wars in Rome. The slaves lost all 3.
Did you know that the word slave comes from the race Slav? This isn't some recent phenomena that we invented to try out on black people. Whites have even been enslaved BY blacks at various points in history. Slavery has existed since the 18th century BC at LEAST. It's unlikely that there is a single man alive who can truthfully say none of his ancestors were ever a slave.
For Our Lord Sheogorath, without Whom all Thought would be linear and all Feeling would be fleeting. Blessed are the Madmen, for they hold the keys to secret knowledge. Blessed are the Phobic, always wary of that which would do them harm. Blessed are the Obsessed, for their courses are clear. Blessed are the Addicts, may they quench the thirst that never ebbs. Blessed are the Murderous, for they have found beauty in the grotesque. Blessed are the Firelovers, for their hearts are always warm. Blessed are the Artists, for in their hands the impossible is made real. Blessed are the Musicians, for in their ears they hear the music of the soul. Blessed are the Sleepless, as they bask in wakeful dreaming. Blessed are the Paranoid, ever-watchful for our enemies. Blessed are the Visionaries, for their eyes see what might be. Blessed are the Painlovers, for in their suffering, we grow stronger. Blessed is the Madgod, who tricks us when we are foolish, punishes us when we are wrong, tortures us when we are unmindful, and loves us in our imperfection.
I was in Canada and heard a frost back call a black guy a ******. Therefore all of Canada is racist because of one incident.
Also, slavery ended a hundred and fifty years ago. Whatever my great great grandparents did to your great great grandparents doesn't have any bearing on today. The fact that people feel guilty about this is insane. Yes it sucks that it happened, but I wasn't the one cracking the whip, and nobody in America today is getting whipped. However, in Africa, there are currently more slaves than there ever were at any time in the United States.
That being said, racism is still apparent in America. Why is it that affirmative action still exists? Why should a minority get special priveledge and job entitlements because they aren't white? If there's a job like police or fire fighter, I want the best, most capable people on the job, regardless of their color. I don't want to see candidates who aren't as qualified be picked above the most capable just to fill a quota. That's racist. It's also ridiculous when minorities claim that civil service tests are racist. Are you telling me that there's a white version of a test versus a minority version? Should I complain that the Chinese kid taking the same test had it easier because there was a math question? Ridiculous.
As for the police being militarized. They should have the best tools at their disposal. This doesn't mean they should be patrolling the streets with m4 rifles, but they should be readily available if the situation arises when they are needed. Training should be paramount, and the idea of de-escalating a situation should be the main focus. However, as far as I know, none of us are police, and none of us can really say what we would do in a situation without experiencing it first hand. We'd all like to say that we'd never act irrationally or out of fear, but until we're in a situation like that, we're all talking out of our asses. I won't lie though, if I were a cop, my two biggest concerns would be to do my job fairly and the right way, and to come home in one piece every day.
Last edited by Pete; 06-26-2015 at 07:52 AM. Reason: I'm an English major, my phone is not. It doesn't spell too good.
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
Well, I've been to the middle east, Peter, and I waan't on vacation.
The first time I went my job was little more than an extreme version of policing.
I never talk out of my ass.
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