Are drugs addiction or a choice for pleasure seekers?

[Rowan]

I would happen to side with peter on this one but mainly because Russel Brand is acting like a complete tosser and its very difficult to take him seriously when he jokes around during a serious discussion; one of the points peter was making. So if you cant be bothered watching this entertaining video, then ill summarise it here briefly. Should drug users be treated with sympathy in the sense that you believe that addiction is a severe disability that needs to be treated with not only an open mind, but with consideration and care for the person of whom has been addicted to substance abuse over extended periods of time, or is it a choice to take drugs, and addiction is merely ones way of seeking pleasure because they feel like it. Russel Brand has empathy as where Peter Hitchens has very little. I say this in the sense that Peter believes drug 'addiction' all starts with a choice, and very much like smoking it can be given up without help from anyone. Peter thinks that harsher penalties should apply to those who are caught with the drugs and doing the drugs so that it may deter people from taking them in the first place. Watch it and post your 2cents or $1.50 here.

tl;dr Drugs are self inflicted problems who gives a shit, or should we fund centers to help these people.
What would be the most effective method to help drug addicts?

[Heartless Angel]

The first dose is always a choice (well, I suppose there are a few cases in which that isn't true, but that's rather rare, so for all practical purposes, I'll stick to my claim here). Any consequences of that initial choice, are therefore also the responsibility of the one who made the choice in the first place. Whether it's a choice to continue, or a 'disease', you dug your own grave, it's time to lie down in it.

As for solving the problem, cure the disease, don't waste time treating symptoms. Go after the serious drugs, hit the dealers and the suppliers and the growers hard. Severe penalties, actively going after these people, that's gonna stop a lot of people from being able to make that first stupid decision. Any that remain who do, do so at their own peril.

Yes, I'm an asshat, I have no sympathy whatsoever for morons.

[noxious.sunshine]

As a "former" drug user, I can honestly say that #1, I've never been -physically- addicted to anything in my life. Ever. I've done some stuff - no molly, heroin, x, or shrooms (you can probably deduce from what I've left -out- of that list what exactly I've done in the past). Spent a year doing coke everyday/night. I was like 18/19 and making too much money. I partied every night as soon as I got off work, stayed up all night, roll into work with more stuffed in my bra, carhopped on skates for 12/13 hrs (was working at a Sonic), got off, did all over again. Bunch of stuff happened - deaths in the family, illnesses, whatever, they cut my hours, I quit. Moved back in with my parents, was fine. Wasn't freaking out cuz I couldn't get it anymore. It was whatever.

I've seen a lot of people get hooked on RX painkillers so bad that if they were out / couldn't find any, they were in a lot of pain and sick. I've seen junkies go to extreme lengths to get what they want and all the ways they can think of to screw people over just to get an extra 1 or 2 pills. I guess there's folks like that no matter what their drug of choice is.

My brother got addicted to painkillers after a bad accident he got into when I was maybe 11 or 12. His wife got him into smoking meth & crack. They're a hot mess and just can't seem to get their shit straight. It's sad. They lost custody of their 3 kids and been in and outta jail over dumb stuff they've tried to pull to get money.

Anywho. With some people - it -is- a choice. They're not addicts, they do something every once in awhile just to have fun and let loose. They're not spending entire paychecks chasing a high or staying wasted. They go to work, take care of their business, whatever. Now, if a wife/husband and children are involved - that's kinda bad depending on how you look at it.

With others, they try it just to "experiment" and continue on un-checked and before they know it, they're completely addicted. Both physically -&- mentally. Do I feel sorry for them? Not necessarily. IMO it's still mind over matter. You got yourself on that shiz, you can get yourself back off of it. You can remove yourself from those situations, avoid the people you were using with, whatever you have to do to stay away. Get your mind on something else and focus on more productive activities like working out or working harder at your job.

[LocoColt04]

I've seen a lot of people get hooked on RX painkillers so bad that if they were out / couldn't find any, they were in a lot of pain and sick. I've seen junkies go to extreme lengths to get what they want and all the ways they can think of to screw people over just to get an extra 1 or 2 pills. I guess there's folks like that no matter what their drug of choice is.

There are six entire months of my 19th year that I can't remember. Seriously, I had to reference the journal I kept here just to figure out what the **** was going on in my life during that time. That entire six months, the only things I ACTUALLY remember are going to California with my sister, flipping shit and denting the train because I found out some guy tried to take advantage of her while I was in the dining cart, and punching some asshole in the face for stealing 1/3 of my bottle of hydro (180 pills per bottle... that's a lot of money if you're selling). Basically anything that stoked a strong enough emotional reaction stuck with me... and everything else was a haze. I was up to the point of taking 3-4 500/5 every four to six hours. Given that this was after a major reconstructive kidney surgery, the prescriptions kept flowing in like candy.

I kicked the addiction cold turkey. That was the most difficult and third-most painful thing I've ever done in my entire life. One morning I woke up, realized that I was wasting my life sitting on the floor of my parents' house doing nothing. I had dropped out of college because the pain (the initial, real pain - not the mental anguish caused by the addiction) had kept me from going to classes, and I was completely unmotivated to go find work, much less roll off the couch that had become my home.

So I quit. Closed the bottle after one single pill that morning. There were still 27 left. The following week and a half was an absolute nightmare.

That bottle has moved to three new homes with me since then as a constant reminder of what I had become, and how I overcame myself.

[Alpha]

I don't know, as I've only ever experimented with recreational drugs. You'd kinda have to take heroin to find out what an addiction is or isn't. However I imagine it can be both a choice and an addiction.

A lot of people would choose to take a drug the first time they take it. They may get addicted to the substance, they may not. They may get addicted to the ritual of the drug taking, or the community, whatever, they may not. In most cases it would not be a fully rational choice that I would hold people responsible for. For it to be rational, it would need to be made in consideration of what they will feel after taking the drugs, or once they are addicted. As you cannot experience that until you have taken drugs, then you cannot make a rational choice with regard to taking them in the first instance. Such choices are time-inconsistent and therefore irrational.

After becoming addicted, I imagine some could make a rational decision to want to stop, say in a moment of sobriety and clear reflection as in Loco's case after rolling off the couch. That can be a choice. But the substance addiction would make realising this ambition very difficult. That is why we need sympathy for drug addicts, who can make a rational choice to stop taking drugs, but need support to help them realise this. And that's a great deal of support: it would involve cutting yourself off from a community of people--your friends, no less--whom you've associated with throughout addiction. It would involve getting other people to deliberately prevent you from exercising what appears to be your will but is really your addiction attempting to manifest.

[noxious.sunshine]

The first time I kinda got into 'em was because of my brother. He's always been an awful influence on me - he got me into pot when I was 10/11 'cuz him and his wife were selling, later talked me into trying crack & meth & I did pills with him (didn't like crack. The way my brother acted would irritate the piss out of me so I didn't bother with it anymore). I didn't get into pills -then-. It was back in '10 when I started working at Red Lobster and a buddy of mine was selling Roxies. Now, I really -do- have a lot of lower back pain and working all day at a restaurant with no break takes its toll quickly. I got into buying Roxies just to help my back, feet, and legs not hurt so much. They also gave me energy and whatnot. @ $25 a pop, it became a very expensive habit, very quickly. Sure I'd buy lower grade stuff (lortabs, percocets, etc) if I couldn't get Roxies or needed "more for my money", but Roxies were my thing. I finally stopped buying them after I'd spent $150 in one night, snorted all 6 the next morning, guzzled a bottle of wine (we were going on a road trip to see my parents and I wasn't driving), and got severely sick later on.

I'm not gonna lie, if some painkillers can be found and I can afford it (they're much cheaper here than they are back home), I'll buy a few. But I don't freak out if they can't be found or I have no way of getting them. Every now and then I'll smoke some reefer, but I kinda got tired of the sluggish, hungry feeling. Alcohol is my drug of choice. XD I'm Irish. and Short. What can I say?

EDIT:

I also really did get whacked out on meth for like a year after I moved to Phoenix. My ex out there got me into it. It was pretty bad. But, again like I said, never was physically addicted. I came back to Nashville, and I was fine (after I finally finished coming down from the last gram I smoked. lol)..

It's quite amusing. I talk about now cuz I really don't care. That's not who I am anymore. and People are like "Omg! You don't look like a tweaker!" and I'm like "Uhm. That's 'cuz A.) It was 7 yrs ago. B.) I took a shower & brushed my teeth every 3 hours 'cuz I felt sweaty & gross & I drank -gallons- of water. & C.) I never started picking at my skin like so many other people do."

[Rowan]

People with first hand experience would have 'empathy' and the others could have sympathy. I find it sensical that people with first hand experiences with the more illicit drugs would empathise because they can understand what addiction is like, everyone else can either sympathise or not. But as Peter said, the way you describe addiction is that you're implying the person has no free will to begin with. In the end, they are deliberatly taking drugs because they choose to, everything that happens afterward is a result of their own actions and should be treated as the crime that it is. People are obviously not dettered from taking drugs so harsher laws need to be enforced to make examples of those that do. The problem is that noone takes the law seriously and bases their lives around their own moral conduct. In most other scenarios, I would actually find this acceptable since I dont believe in a totalitarianistic obedience to anyone or anything, but when you buy drugs you are supporting an illegal organisation founded on bloodshed, murder, billions of dollars in illegal activity that results in the deaths and horrible lives of others. Just think about that next time you are after a cheap thrill.

[loaf]

The moment you catch yourself NEEDING said substance is when you are an addict.

Everything is based off of choice, peer pressure does get to people.

[Rowan]

The moment you catch yourself NEEDING said substance is when you are an addict.

Everything is based off of choice, peer pressure does get to people.

Where do you draw the line for 'need' and 'want' when it comes to illicit drugs? Need for me is something that is required in order to continue living, or perhaps achieve something. In this case, the need in drugs would warrant a feeling of relief? In which case, I still wouldn't class it as a need, but a want. You might disagree with me though...

[noxious.sunshine]

I think I agree with the NEED statement.

People -can- die from Heroin withdrawals if they've done it so much and so often. They do literally -need- the drug in order to continue living, even though they'll die either way at some point.

This may sound cold-hearted, but I almost -don't- sympathize or feel empathy towards those who have problems now. I know I effed up hardcore in the past. I also know that I drug myself out of my problems alone. No one in my family knows what all I've been on or gone through. I made a mistake, I fixed it. On my own. Without rehab or help from family & friends. In my eyes, I just don't see how others can let themselves fall down that rabbit hole. Especially when children are involved. I know that sounds extremely contradictory and again, cold hearted, but that's just how I feel -now-. And yes, I don't understand how I let myself fall so far like that in spite of the bad influences in my life. I really don't. It was completely stupid. I knew what I was doing was a bad idea when I started doing it, but I did it anyway.

Buuut anywho. I lost my train of thought. Long night at work (yay Valentine's Day. gag)

[Odin1199]

Drugs aren't a choice for pleasure, they are an escape from whatever one can't cope with. Pleasure is just an illusion, a psychological dependancy.

[noxious.sunshine]

For me, no. I drink 'cuz I think it's fun... Until I have to work 12 hours the next day. lol .. I don't -have- to drink, or need to. I'm fine without it. It's just since I live in a corn field next to some goats, there's not much else to do. Seriously. lol

[Lacquer Head]

Everything is addicting on one level or another. Just something can be less healthy than other things. Obviously, some drugs are physically addictive, but some are mentally addictive, all on different levels. Anything that makes us happy is addictive on some level. Some people get dependent on some drugs, but then again, people become dependent on many things. We all have some form of crutch that we lean on, whether we're aware of it or not. If we didn't, life would be absolutely terrible.

As for whether or not we should have rehab centers, well yes of course. Physically addictive substances can kill a person without proper medication and such. If you're going to try to bash such programs, free or not, go all the way. "There shouldn't be lung cancer, these morons should have made better life choices about where they worked. You shouldn't skateboard if you don't wanna break an arm, suffer and leave us safety seekers alone." See where I'm going with this? The only reason drug use is different is that it's illegal...which is a stupid reason.

[noxious.sunshine]

Yup. I agree. People can get addicted to many things outside of illegal drugs explicitly - caffeine, nicotine, junk food, -not- eating, purging, cleaning, etc.

I'm not knocking rehab centers, I know in extreme cases, people do need them in order to survive.
But I still stand by what I said as far as people letting themselves fall down into all that in the first place.