Star Wars: The Force Awakens

**Xanatos** · 01-09-2016, 12:28 PM

I'm somewhat surprised there's no Star Wars The Force Awakens thread. So, who's seen the new Star Wars?

I find it to be highly entertaining, although slightly disappointing at certain parts. The new characters, Finn, Rey, surprisingly even Poe, especially him come to think of it, are all around quite likeable. As for Kylo Ren, mixed feelings right there. I don't mind him as a character, his inner struggle however and connection to certain iconic characters are poorly done in my opinion making that infamous death scene a lot less emotional than it could have been.

Stormtroopers were a lot more capable this time around which is a refreshing thing to see, save for Captain Phasma. All that hype for 30 seconds of pure and utter disappointment, reminds me of Boba Fett to be honest. She should have fought Finn instead of TR-8R who was awesome by the way. My biggest gripe with The Force Awakens though, is that it feels all too familiar, I'm all for fan service but The Force Awakens retraces way too many steps A New Hope did.

It sounds like I'm overly critical of The Force Awakens, I'll say this though, this was one of the most pleasant experiences I had at cinema, I felt like a kid again, hell, I even got a Chewbacca toy with my drink, how awesome is that.

**Coff9** · 01-09-2016, 01:51 PM

I plan to see it at some point, once it comes out on DVD or Blu-Ray or whatever is available.

I've heard a lot of mixed things about the movie. Some people have really liked it while others have said to give it a pass.

I'll have to see what I think.

Personally, I would love to have a KoTOR movie. Those games are some of the best Star Wars media I've come across. Certainly recommended.

**Andromeda** · 01-09-2016, 01:57 PM

I've seen it, it was a Star Wars movie, which is about the highest amount of praise I can give it. Which is saying a lot since Abrams failed twice to make a Star Trek movie. So he finally actually made what he was supposed to make. However, it was a bad story with good execution. And the more I think about it the less I like the movie.

**Clint** · 01-09-2016, 07:09 PM

It's a good movie. I haven't heard any mixed reviews. It's derivative of both A New Hope and Return of the Jedi, but those are two good movies to be derivative of, so I'm not complaining. It has very good character development, and interesting and ambiguous story points that make the next two movies seem that much more interesting.

It had a good villain. I heard a lot of people saying that Kylo Ren was too weak, but if you think about it, Vader wasn't that strong. He was nothing compared to the Emperor. He was just intimidating.

Originally Posted by Andromeda

Which is saying a lot since Abrams failed twice to make a Star Trek movie.

I wouldn't say that, since both of his Star Trek movies were good. The only Star Trek movies that were better are Wrath of Khan, Search For Spock, The Voyage Home, and First Contact. All the other ones were lackluster and forgettable.

**Andromeda** · 01-09-2016, 07:27 PM

You forgot Undiscovered Country, but I dread what Beyond is going to be like. I'm a little hopeful since Abrams isn't directing it and it looks like they're trying to actually make an original plot until Into Darkness. But the trailer worries me.

I couldn't take Kylo Ren seriously or even as a threat. He made the mistake of taking his helmet off twice, which completely kills any potential intimidation factor he possessed. And then whenever things don't go his way he throws a lightsaber tantrum. For being in his 20s or whatever, he's so immature and childish. And he doesn't even have respect of the commander, the guy keeps telling on Kylo to Snoke to make him look bad. He just wants him out of the way. People actually feared Vader and didn't try to undermine or make him look bad. Because they knew Vader would kill them on the spot. Failure under Vader means death, failure under Kylo Ren means a computer console will be destroyed. Who's going to be scared of that?

**Clint** · 01-09-2016, 08:46 PM

I didn't really like Undiscovered Country. That, Final Frontier, and the first one were my least favorite Star Trek movies. Even though they were lackluster, I liked the other Next Generation movies better than those. Into Darkness was a very well done derivative of Wrath of Khan. It's a new timeline of events that already happened. Events that occur now should naturally seem a bit derivative.

It would have completely ruined Vader's intimidation factor if he took off his helmet, sure, but Kylo Ren isn't Vader. He acts like a kid because he is a kid. Vader was in his 40s in the original trilogy. Ren is still figuring stuff out. Ren is the equivalent of a Padawan, whereas Vader was a legitimate Sith lord.

There could also be another reason why he's not that intimidating. There's more to Ren than what was presented in the film, and if his motivations are what I think they are, he'll end up being one of the most interesting characters. Despite how unintimidating and inexperienced he seemed, he was vicious at the climax of the film. That lightsaber duel was ****ing raw. And his control of the force is superlative. I've never seen anybody stop a blaster bolt in midair.

**Andromeda** · 01-09-2016, 09:06 PM

Stopping the blaster looked to be a variant of what Vader did in Empire, which was deflect blaster bolts with his control over the Force. I'm hard pressed to say what he did showed impressive control of the Force, since it feels like they did things with the Force because they sounded like cool ideas and hadn't been seen before. They were trying to find something different. But it's not to say Vader or Luke or the Jedi of the prequels couldn't do the same things that Kylo Ren showed off. It's a common thing when you have something really familiar you need to find something different to do with it because the cool factor is now lost. So you have to get more inventive as a creator of a media to keep the audience interested still saying that was still cool. So I can't say that he was that good until he does some things that you've seen others do so you have something to compare against. You need common ground to know how talented he might be.

He's a conflicted character and immature. He's a kid, still doesn't change me from being unable to take him seriously. The second time he threw a tantrum they made it into a joke rather than actual serious moment. The movie doesn't even treat him seriously at times. So it's hard for me to do so.

**loaf** · 01-10-2016, 09:20 AM

If this movie went in any other direction it risked being bad. It risked doing something different that fans would have not liked. If J.J. went in a different direction, he could have butchered it more than that was already done with Prequels.

Kylo Ren's story is going to progress, this is a build up of what they are going to do. Since he had a balance of both light and dark.

SPOILER!!:

**Xanatos** · 01-10-2016, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Andromeda

Which is saying a lot since Abrams failed twice to make a Star Trek movie.

As a die hard Star Trek fan I'm genuinely fed up with this notion that J.J. Abrams did Trek wrong. With two exceptions, Wrath of Khan and First Contact, the entire Star Trek film franchise was piss poor before Abrams picked it up, and made it relevant again. With all of their flaws both of his films are financial and critical success, and in my opinion better than most movies that came before.

Originally Posted by loaf

Since he had a balance of both light and dark.

His inner struggle, battle between the light and the dark side, is in my opinion poorly done, it resulted in him behaving way too angsty for my liking. Plus his connection to...

SPOILER!!:

**Andromeda** · 01-10-2016, 01:31 PM

Yeah, I agree about the scene with Han and reveals. Because it came so early there was no real weight to it. And since the movie was copying so strongly from A New Hope, it telegraphed what was going to happen with Han so far in advance and clearly there was no surprise to it.

I would have respected Abrams and Disney more if they had actually risked making a more original story. Because as it falls right now following the beats of A New Hope so closely just kills most of the enjoyment I can have for the movie since I've already seen A New Hope.

As for Star Trek, we'll probably have to agree to disagree Xanatos because Abrams doesn't understand what Star Trek is and he made that clear in the two movies. Being financial successes doesn't mean that they're understanding what Star Trek is. It's the same with Transformers, they huge successes, but any Transformers fans knows that they don't understand what Transformers is about. But both franchises as they exist now exist for a different audience. They aren't meant for the fans of the original material that they're based off of, but for a new audience that either isn't familiar or has found them unappealing to them. Yes, Abrams made a successful movie that people enjoyed, but it wasn't for Star Trek fans. He's even gone on record as being a Star Wars fan, not a Star Trek fan. And Paramount has made it clear that they don't want a Star Trek movie as Sean Penn has said, stating the script for Beyond was too Star Trek-y.

**Xanatos** · 01-10-2016, 05:32 PM

Him being a Star Wars fan makes no difference seeing how some of the worst Star Trek movies were made by Star Trek fans, but that's probably OK because they understand what Star Trek is. But yeah, agree to disagree.

Moving onto The Force Awakens, I'm not overly fond just how fast Rey became good at using the force, I mean she pulled off some impressive Jedi tricks rather fast. Not to be all negative, I forgot to mention one character, or droid if you will, that is rather cute, and funny, BB-8. I like that little fella.

**Clint** · 01-10-2016, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Andromeda

I would have respected Abrams and Disney more if they had actually risked making a more original story. Because as it falls right now following the beats of A New Hope so closely just kills most of the enjoyment I can have for the movie since I've already seen A New Hope.

Your gripe is that it follows A New Hope, but it doesn't. You criticize them for not writing an original story, but they did. There are similarities, sure, but it's a completely new story. The prequel trilogy mirrored the original trilogy. They had plenty of similarities, but I didn't hear anybody complaining that they were too similar. Now you have a new movie with a new story, and a movie that's very fun, with a bunch of nostalgia thrown in there, which is what everyone wanted, and people are bitching about it. Nobody is ever satisfied.

Also, about the reveal concerning Kylo Ren, it had no weight to it because it wasn't supposed to. The story isn't about Ren, it's about Rey and Finn. What happened to Han wasn't about Ren, it was about Han's connection to the protagonists, the result of which will further progress the story.

SPOILER!!:

Originally Posted by Andromeda

Yes, Abrams made a successful movie that people enjoyed, but it wasn't for Star Trek fans.

Despite that Star Trek fans enjoyed the movies. Do you just despise things that are good? Chocolate tastes like chalk to you?

Originally Posted by Xanatos

I'm not overly fond just how fast Rey became good at using the force, I mean she pulled off some impressive Jedi tricks rather fast.

SPOILER!!:

**Andromeda** · 01-10-2016, 07:52 PM

I did say followed the same beats of A New Hope. The actual story is different. But it uses the same plot beats to construct itself. You have someone entrusting plans that everyone wants to a droid that falls into the hands of the main character which drags them into a fight against the villains. You have the enemy super weapon wipes out random planet and then threatens the actual base of the heroes. Different things happens in the movie and the story is different. But the beats of random person on desert finds droid with something important and then goes off on an adventure is the exact same setup. The prequels had familiar and similarity, but they didn't take the same beats so heavily that you felt like you were watching the same thing already. Paying reference to or fan service is one thing and that happens a lot in Star Wars. I'm fine with that. Making it feel like a reboot of Episode IV I'm not.

I enjoy plenty of things. Just because my opinion doesn't match with the group census doesn't mean I don't enjoy things. It just means we like different things.

**Clint** · 01-10-2016, 08:56 PM

The super-weapon didn't target random planets. The first order wiped out the capitol of the republic, thus declaring war. And the information regarding the star map was on the desert planet of Jakku because it's in the western reaches, far away from the remnants of the empire in the outer rim. And that's also why Rey was on Jakku.

If the catalyst for events seem familiar, that makes sense, since in actual human history, events do indeed repeat themselves. And if the Star Wars films have taught us anything, it's that the force isn't just some mystical energy, it's a conscious, all-knowing element that connects and binds everything in the entire universe, and uses known patterns in attempts to balance itself. A known pattern catalyzed by similar circumstances worked to balance the force previously, so it makes sense that those very catalysts would be repeated. That's just the nature of the force.

You also have to remember that this is part one of a trilogy. People flipped shit after Episode I about stupid crap like Jar Jar Binks being annoying, and forced Lucas' hand in changing certain plot points and characters for Episodes II and III. Ironically, if people stopped complaining and just waited to see the whole story before judging it and jumping to conclusions, the original plot would have been much more fulfilling, and would have served to make Episode I the most interesting Star Wars installment. The original plot indicated that Jar Jar was a sith lord, and not a bumbling idiot, and acted to manipulate events in Episode I favor of Palpatine and the dark side. But nobody got it, because audiences are generally very impatient, as well as horrible at picking up subtle cues, as is the case for Episode VII.

**Xanatos** · 01-11-2016, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Clint

SPOILER!!:

That's just a theory at this point, although I have to admit there are some nods she might be...

SPOILER!!:

**Odin1199** · 02-16-2017, 09:59 PM

TFA is a copy paste of ANH in many ways. It also made Rey way too powerful. No Jedi can learn force on her own at that pace just by being exposed to it. That's why training and academies exist. Also the super death star is a very unrealistic weapon. Draw energy of the sun until it dies? It's like saying moon can be shrunk and carried in one's pocket. That's how childish and stupid the concept is. And why build a death star on a planet, that is grounded and unable to fire anything after using up 2 suns? Talk about a fail concept.