Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

**Xanatos** · 03-24-2016, 05:43 PM

After eagerly waiting for nearly three years to see this flick I never ever would have thought I would leave cinema saying "meh, whatever". I mean, Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman appearing together on the big screen for the first time, that's a pretty huge deal in itself, how the hell did they manage to **** that up is beyond me.

MINOR SPOILERS...

It's The Amazing Spider-Man 2 all over again, they crammed so much into this film it's not even funny. Two of the most iconic stories in DC comic book history (The Dark Knight Returns, The Death of Superman) are in this film, both butchered and half assed. The way the main conflict between Batman and Superman started, especially the way it abruptly ended was poorly done. And is it too much to ask for a serious, arrogant, and intelligent Lex Luthor for once, because Eisenberg, like his predecessors, was a complete and utter joke. Doomsday was all CGI, and yet he looked more like a cave troll from LOTR than his comic counterpart. Why? The Justice League setup was genuinely weird, the knightmare scene came out of nowhere, cameos were shoehorned in the worst possible way, looked downright sloppy as well. Superman is still gloomy as hell, even more so than in Man of Steel which is hard to believe. They're hell bent on making him as dark and gritty as possible, I'm not asking for a campy silver age Superman, but goddamn, not even Clark Kent is spared this treatment.

Not to be all negative, Jeremy Irons as Alfred is superb. Gal Gadot was a pleasant surprise. Ben Affleck is appearance wise best Batman yet, although for some strange reason Batman is killing people left and right, which is weird, not even Frank Miller's Batman was that brutal. Great score, to be expected of Hans Zimmer.

END OF SPOILERS

Overall, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is a dull affair, there's no levity whatsoever, it's often dark and gritty for the sake of being dark and gritty. Not to say it's a bad movie, but far from a spectacle you would normally expect given the source material. At least I got a Batman figurine with my drink, which is awesome.

For those who have seen Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, what did you think of it?

**Heartless Angel** · 03-24-2016, 08:19 PM

Haven't seen it yet out of fear that it would be terrible, and it sounds like everyone is confirming my suspicions. How did I just KNOW they were going to try to cram too many different plotlines into too short a time and just **** them all up?

**Zargabaath** · 03-26-2016, 01:42 PM

After hearing all the bad reviews and partially reading some, I was a little more worried going in. I was not too fond that they were starting at the opposite end compared to Marvel's cinematic universe. With Marvel doing solo films leading up to Avengers to DC doing a half Justice League film then doing solo. It really appeared that they were trying to play catch up which tends to be a bad idea. With that said I was going in with an open mind.

SPOILER!!:

And there are spoilers so be cautious...

SPOILER!!:

Coming out of the movie theater I was more than satisfied. I liked it better than Man of Steel, which I liked as well. Reading some people's reactions to the film they put this as one of the worst super-hero films ever. On the level of Amazing Spider-Man 2, Iron Man 2 or 3, Hulk and a few other films that they named. I would have to vehemently disagree with their assessment. There were poor of bad parts to this film, but nothing that was abhorrent.

Let me give quick kudos to Jeremy Irons as Alfred. Ben Affleck, who many people thought was going to suck due to his performance (/movie as a whole) in Daredevil. Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. Obviously not playing as big as a part as Bats or Supes in this film she did good. Her "reveal" at the end and subsequent fight I was loving it. The triumvirate, so to speak, of DC and perhaps of Comics in general, fighting together. I was excited and elated to see this pre Justice League duke it out with Doomsday; a feeling I did not get so much from Marvel's Avengers.

There is room for growth with Lex Luthor to become the person we are accustomed to in the comics and what has been portrayed in the animated format, but Jesse Eisenberg's rendition was ok. He can only do so much with the script and character. Who knows how much leeway he did have to branch out. I did not like the fact they used Lex's son. I want Lex, but maybe this Lex Jr. can become the Lex we like. I came away with a similar sentiment towards Eisenberg's portrayal of Lex as being inspired or imitated from Heath Ledger's Joker. Similar to how the 90's Batman films made Two-Face and the Riddler, Joker clones done by Jack Nicholson (more so Two-Face) - not cool. If anything I have more of a problem with the mannerisms of Lex Luthor more than the dialogue. What was said seemed true to Lex, but some of the wackiness to his character - not at all.

I felt sorry for Laurence Fishburne as Perry White. I liked him in MoS, the scene where he goes back for Jenny (in MoS) as the World Engine/Ship was about to kill them. Good stuff, along with him running with Jenny - Laurence moved some weight. Lol. However, as one reviewer said his dialogue was poor and there was probably nothing he could've done. Like "Clark you got sports". First off I am pretty sure a chief-editor doesn't randomly assign people to different sections. I view the Daily Planet as their NY Times, Washington Post, or Wall Street Journal. There should be a sports writer on your staff who covers ... sports! Surprise. So I felt that was bad on the writers and I'm sure Snyder could have, ya know changed that up a bit.

One thing odd was how Lois Lane knew she may want to grab the krypton spear after dropping it in the water. That was inexplicable.

The whole pacing and editing issue, which I talk about a bit more later, did not bother me nor affected my understanding of the story. I'll have to re-watch it to see how smoothly or not it transitions. The Dark Knight had smooth transitions and flow where certain characters would talk about another and the next scene would continue the story with said mentioned character. The bounty that Gamol sets on the Joker's head is shown later on with a couple of guys coming to collect. I will say this movie was tailored more for the comic book community than the "average" viewer. I understood the references, like Barry Allen coming to Bruce's dreams to warn him about Superman, that Bruce was right all along, that Lois was the key - Injustice story arc. I will admit the uniform through me off as I did not see the Flash symbol, I thought it was Cyborg using some of Doomsday's technology - which was shown later as how Cyborg came to be - to travel through time, but I still understood what was being foreshadowed. The desert dream sequence right before the Flash's appearance also alludes to Injustice and Darkseid with the Omega symbol stamped on the barren Earth along with his troops. Some people apparently had trouble keeping up with what was a dream or real or whatever and I don't understand - it was simple to follow.

Where to place the blame for shortcomings in movies can be difficult. A lot of people are blaming Snyder for the story, characters, editing, pacing, etc., but he may not have the much influence in some areas. Like the script. Sure an actor can ad-lib or the director say do "y" instead of what is in the script, but the basis is done by the writers. There are editors who the director works with, but they know editing it is their job. Now whoever did edit may suck or Snyder had a lot of authority and he sucks, but these problems can't be solely placed at Snyder's feet. Hell, I've heard that really a movie is the producer's baby, hence why Best Picture is given to the producers. That a producer has more control of how the film turns out than the director.

Overall I came out with a positive experience, more than what can be said about Avengers: Age of Ultron which I felt to be a little too similar to the first Avengers film. So much so, that I gave up watching Marvel films in theater because they have become too formulaic. BvS created a world that asked how would we deal with someone like Superman. How would the world view him now that he is known. Batman who has dealt with twenty years of Gotham dredge must be wary of a person who could easily wipe out the world. Clark Kent, growing up as an unique boy that does have human tendencies as I'm sure Kryptonians had as well, dealing with how to exist in this world. Call it growing pains. Everything isn't sunshine and rainbows like in MCU or doom and gloom. There is an ebb and flow. This movie was darker and I had no problem with that. MoS set the stage of revealing aliens to us. The fight with the Zod showed us how strong they were. Most Marvel films lack social commentary or any meaningful questions. It is like the companies switched persona. DC back in the day was light, campy and followed the Comics Code Authority. Marvel on the other hand decided to "rebel" and not care about the seal of approval, commenting on the current issues and being edgy which DC then copied as well. But in their respective cinematic universes Marvel is safe, campy, and having predictable humor - as if nothing is ever too serious or dangerous.

I liked Batman v Superman.

**Xanatos** · 03-26-2016, 05:43 PM

Let me expand on my points even further...

SPOILER!!:

I'll start off with my biggest complaint and that would be Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor. Aside from his erratic downright crazy behavior, his motives were weak, almost none existent. He was bent on pitting Batman and Superman against each other and the best we got was he did it due to some pseudo religious bullshit. Also, what was his end game? He managed to create Doomsday, partially with his own blood no less (WTF?), a monster that tried to kill him right off the bat, a monster he had no way of stopping if it ended up being victorious. And as much as I hate Gene Hackman's and Kevin Spacey's campy Luthor this one topped them both by having such a fit saliva literally went out of his nose into his mouth, I shit you not.

Speaking of Doomsday, I didn't really mind him as a way to unite the trinity because in all honesty even in comics he's nothing short of a punching bag. However, appearance wise he looked terrible, there was literally no reason whatsoever to make such departure from its comic book counterpart.

To me personally, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is a huge mess, it felt like a three films crammed into one, a Man of Steel sequel, a Batman film, all while setting up the Justice League. There was so much going on all at once, some truly great ideas that were either half assed or went nowhere. For instance, one of the most iconic Superman arcs, "The Death of Superman", was shoehorned as a final 30 minute act. Speaking of "The Death of Superman", they pulled this trigger way too early, there was no emotional resonance, not from me as a viewer and certainly not on the screen because the build up to this was weak to say the least, and quite frankly this Superman is not all that likeable. Imagine Captain America dying in the very first Avengers, difference being, and funny enough, MCU Captain America is more akin to Superman and what he stands for than this Superman.

The main conflict between Batman and Superman stopped abruptly on a cringe worthy note, that "Martha" scene had potential to be powerful, but sadly the delivery was awful. The conflict itself began because both Superman and Batman were out of character and were at times portrayed piss poorly.

They set other heroes in the worst possible way, Aquaman's cameo was downright awkward. As for the Injustice and Darkseid setup, the knightmare scene itself is cool, although it's random as ****, Flash looks weird and I'm not sure since when he has the ability to warn people via vision in their sleep.

Batman killing random thugs left and right probably means we wont see the "Red Hood" story in this universe which is a real shame, it also raises some questions like "if this Batman is more brutal than even Frank Miller's, why are Killer Croc, Deathshoot, Harley Quinn, Joker in particular, still out there?".

I don't mind this film being dark and gritty, after all The Dark Knight and The Winter Soldier were rather dark and serious films and they had me captivated and on the edge of my seat the entire time, Batman V Superman however is quite often dark and gritty just for the sake of being dark and gritty, hell, Jimmy Olsen (yup, that was Jimmy Olsen) was killed at the start of the film to move a sidestory that had a laughable, irrelevant pay off.

Overall, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is nowhere near as terrible as the critics make it out to be, certainly not on the same level as Batman & Robin or Fant4stic, it's a mess, sure, but one with a lot of redeeming features (actions, Wonder Woman, Batman for the most part, Alfred). I would place it in the same basket as The Amazing Spider-Man 2 and Age of Ultron.

**Zargabaath** · 03-26-2016, 10:13 PM

SPOILER!!:

**Xanatos** · 03-27-2016, 07:55 PM

I've seen some of Zack's interviews today, and I'm fairly certain he has no idea what he's doing at this point or even why...

SPOILER!!:

I'm eagerly waiting for the R rated cut, curious to see what kind of difference 30 minutes of extra footage makes.

**nix** · 03-28-2016, 04:13 PM

It was an ok movie up until...

SPOILER!!:

**jwilliams** · 03-29-2016, 04:10 AM

Maybe, I'll be in minority here but I liked this movie. It's not a masterpiece or "OMG 10/10!! Best Movie Ever!!!", but still it's pretty good. Batman in this film is the best Batman so far, and those who asking questions "why he killing thugs"... just look at him! He's been fighting with this criminals for twenty years, lost his fellow comrades(Robin's suit with the Joker writings), he became the Batman from The Dark Knight Returns. And in my opinion it's awesome. Wonder Woman was great, Alfred too, Lex..well i think everything is not so simple with him. I noticed that his behaviour, when he is alone, rather different,even more serious, then when he is in public. Superman..well... typical Superman, Lois Lane... she propably the only character I was dissapointed about. I liked her in Man of Steel, but here she was just typical damsel in distress.
What else... visual effects are great, music..Hans Zimmer you're a God of music, story was pretty good and serious, without some low-level jokes like in some Marvel movies.

SPOILER!!:

So I rate this film 8/10, and really hope, and waiting for another DC movies.

**Pete** · 03-29-2016, 05:11 AM

My biggest gripe was some of the cinematography and the overuse of the slow motion/ comic book style scene. I don't need to see a shell fall in slow motion to be extra dramatic.

Amy Adams in the tub, now that could have used the slow motion.

Everything else was much better than expected. Then again the critics set the bar so low that I was expecting garbage. As for plot twists, I really don't know how else they could have set things up. It makes sense to humanize both characters, and there's not much of a better way to do it.

Also wtf Aquamam, just chillin