FFXIII battle system vs classic ones

[loaf]

please explain why.

Being 1 disk is not a real reason

lol it's the same game get over your sony ego

[Rowan]

please explain why.

Being 1 disk is not a real reason

lol it's the same game get over your sony ego

Its got nothing to do with ego. Its like comparing a VHS to a DVD. Quality is in the resolution, frame rate and audio. Its non-debatable.

[Odin1199]

Will FF15 have similar system?

[loaf]

lol Rowan it's a video game, not a movie. Your debate is useless.

[Andromeda]

Will FF15 have similar system?

No, FFXV will be the first main line series to be an action RPG, it's going to be more like Kingdom Hearts combat. One of the main abilities of the main character is the having multiple weapons available on call and he is able to throw them to different locations on the field and warp to them. They show him warping to the side of a building and dropping down on a rappelling soldier. Things like that.

[Rowan]

lol Rowan it's a video game, not a movie. Your debate is useless.

It's more of a poorly written drama than an actual game. Your argument is invalid.

[loaf]

You still have yet to give me an solid reason as to why the PS3 version is better than the 360 version.

[Rowan]

You still have yet to give me an solid reason as to why the PS3 version is better than the 360 version.

ps3 is a better console and the 360 version was a port of ps3 version. Xbox has lower resolution, frame rate and audio quality. If you dont think that makes something inferior, then you have the ego.

[loaf]

That doesn't change anything for the game play.

[Heartless Angel]

The system had potential, but it really just kinda flopped in my opinion. I literally beat the entire game with 3 paradigms. Rav Rav Com for staggering, com com com for smiting, and med sen syn for recovering and preparing. There was virtually no strategy required. I switched to med after big attacks, built up stagger with ravs, and unleashed with commandos on everything. I may have actually had to think on one fight, outside of that, same process for every fight. I think it could have been done a lot better if the classes were more varied. All the roles were pretty basic, and there wasn't really any variation in how you used them.

I loved the mid combat class changing in FFX-2, that was actually a great game.

[Rowan]

That doesn't change anything for the game play.

the gameplay is the same on both consoles. The gameplay is not the only defining quality of a game. Presentation is also highly valued.

[Odin1199]

Rowan is right, loaf. Graphics do matter quite alot, (at least for many) no matter how you look at it.

Heartless Angel~

Lol, I like your blunt, yet very accurate summary.

[Fluffy]

I'd like to know how you came to the conclusion that it was accurate when it seems you have yet to even play the game.

[Odin1199]

Because I trust HA.

[Rowan]

Because I trust HA.

But as I was saying, its totally worth a single playthrough. It just has 1/10 replayability. I would give it a zero, but the fact that the game doesnt self destruct after you complete it means that it is technically replayable.

[Odin1199]

Maybe, but will be on the very end of my must play FF list though.

[Heartless Angel]

Story was actually interesting, but the combat system was mediocre at best. Which is more than I can say for 12.

[Odin1199]

Yeah, I did find the story to be pretty interesting when I looked at the 16bit summary of it.

[tiornys]

there are bosses in which there is only 1 strat that will defeat them, which I also found to be the case. It sucked the fun/strategy out of the game because half the fun of fighting bosses in the FF series was coming up with your own strategy.

Nope. Every boss can be defeated in multiple ways. Every enemy can be defeated with 5-stars using multiple strategies. If you think otherwise, then you don't know the game as well as you think you do.

edit: I suppose that's sort of an arrogant claim to just throw out there without support, but on the other hand I'm not going to sit here and detail multiple strategies for every fight in the game. If you disagree, give me a fight and your strategy for that fight, and I'll respond with at least one alternative strategy.

Nah but seriously. Just because the strategy isn't happening during battle, doesn't mean theres no strategy at all. And later bosses require you to think, switch characters, use skills manually in order to be fully effective. This doesn't happen in XIII, in my experience. I completed all the missions on that planet too, by the way. Its a shame the game wasn't like that from the start. Had so much potential at that point. The only struggle I had was with the final boss on those missions.

Nah. FFXIII requires more strategy, thought, character switching, and in-battle command manipulation than most FF games if you want to be fully effective in battle. To borrow some fighting game/MOBA parlance, FFXIII has a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling.

Edit: Okay using your example of 13, bosses always follow a pattern, attacks are not randomized.

Wrong. Most bosses have quite a bit of randomization in their attacks.

[Odin1199]

What do you mean by effective, if you can beat the game with 3 paradigms? How does using other ones change anything anyways, other than the star rating?

[tiornys]

Improving your star ratings improves your access to the game's other resources: it gives you more XP/gil in the form of higher rare drop percentage, and it allows you to regenerate more TP. And, of course, you save time since you're winning more efficiently.

Besides, why discuss the strategies near the skill floor for any FF game? They're all ridiculously low. Discussing strategies near (or above) the skill ceiling is much more interesting.

[Odin1199]

Still, some require only one strat to get the top rating. And bosses require strict strats as well.

[Rowan]

You can disagree with me all you want. The fact is I've played the game, I finished the game. I 5 star all bosses and beat all the missions on pulse. Im right, you're wrong. If I say theres no strat involved and you reckon there is, then it just goes to show how tall your 'skill ceiling' is in comparison to mine.

[Andromeda]

Just for curiosity sake. Rowan, on the average, what did you do in a boss fight in the game? Not looking for specifics, just a summary.

[Rowan]

Just for curiosity sake. Rowan, on the average, what did you do in a boss fight in the game? Not looking for specifics, just a summary.

To put it simply, I auto'd and switched paradigms accordingly. After understanding the boss' pattern, It was a snooze. Sorry for bashing it so much, I just wish I could say I felt the same about the franchise as I did back in the ps1 era.

for most bosses, some attacks require you to be in sentinal to suck damage. If you are not, you - will - lose - the - game. Some might call that strategy, but not me. Build up the percent with a ravenger, then smash out on commando. Block damage with sentinal. Theres no room for growth in battle other than that most obvious formula.

[Andromeda]

What you just described is a strategy though. You had a plan and executed the plan, sounds like a strategy to me.

If you look at XIII combat flow and compare it to most of the other FF games, XIII is far more complex and requires more thought. XIII is a macro style game where other FFs are a micro style game. You can play XIII micro style, but it is slower. XIII you're more the commander than the individual soldier. Your focus was overall tactics.

How many FF games can you line up all of your guys and just spam the confirm button to attack the boss? Or in the event of a mage, select a different menu and select your best spell to spam repeatedly. That describes pretty much every FF game, that is even more simplistic than XIII which requires you to think about what the enemy is going to do any react to it. XIII also made debuffs a viable strategy and spells in boss fights, which in any other FF they were completely pointless to the game as bosses were all immune to anything useful and minor enemies died too fast for it to be worth wasting the MP for it.

[tiornys]

You can disagree with me all you want. The fact is I've played the game, I finished the game. I 5 star all bosses and beat all the missions on pulse. Im right, you're wrong. If I say theres no strat involved and you reckon there is, then it just goes to show how tall your 'skill ceiling' is in comparison to mine.

Seriously? You're pulling the argument from authority card? And not only that, you're passing yourself off as an authority based on that piddly record?

Ok. I can play that game. I played FFXIII. I finished FFXIII. I 5-starred all bosses and all missions. Then I played the game again, and made a jumping off save at the beginning of chapter 10. Then I played it again 3 more times from chapter 10 through 13, with three different leaders, doing numerous missions early in chapter 11 each time. Then I ran three parallel playthroughs at three different power levels (MFO+guarded treasures; fight all on-path fights once+guarded treasures, no optional fights or grinding; fight everything on path+most optional fights, judicious grinding, and early missions), stopping to fight each boss numerous times to analyze how the bosses play differently at different levels with different equipment and paradigm setups. Then I worked with a team of other FFXIII enthusiasts to figure out how to defeat and 5-star all 64 missions at stage 8 of the Crystarium (62 of the 64 were done before even unlocking stage 9). We also defeated Shaolong Gui and Long Gui (no Summon) at those stats. Then I did a bunch of other challenge-play related stuff that I don't feel like detailing here. Then I learned how to speedrun the game and helped a friend set the current world record for FFXIII any% RTA (5:26:38). And currently, I'm working on a speedrun route for going from a new PSN/XBLive profile to a Platinum Trophy in under 20 real-world hours.

I know this game better than you do.

And hey, I'm not saying that it takes a ton of strategy to get through the game. But then, that's not what your claim was either. You said there was no strategy for being "fully effective." That's where you're wrong, and I guarantee that what you've done has been nowhere near fully effective (I can claim this with certainty based on your description of your strategy for the boss fights).

This is what being fully effective looks like (boss spoilers):

Final Fantasy XIII - Chapter 11 end boss - Stage 8 primary roles, no shrouds/TP/items, cheap upgrades - 0:40 - YouTube
Final Fantasy XIII - Chapter 12 end boss, no shrouds, no Trap/Dark Matter equipment - 0:53 - YouTube

And there's a good chance this is superior to your run against this boss, despite a very limiting restriction (and probably less development too):

Chapter 11 end boss, 5 stars, Paradigm Shifting Only - YouTube

[Rowan]

MP became useless in other final fantasy because you were able to develop a strategy to therefor make it redundant, If you chose to follow a path like that. You have 1 option in XIII, and that is to switch paradigms and follow the formula. Maybe that is strategy, but I found it boring, easy and totally restrictive. As I stated before, 5 starring the final boss on pulse was the only one I had difficulty with, that was because it took 25 - 40 minutes of the same 'strategy' without me falling asleep!w

[tiornys]

Still, some require only one strat to get the top rating. And bosses require strict strats as well.

There are always multiple strategies to achieve 5-stars.

MP became useless in other final fantasy because you were able to develop a strategy to therefor make it redundant, If you chose to follow a path like that. You have 1 option in XIII, and that is to switch paradigms and follow the formula. Maybe that is strategy, but I found it boring, easy and totally restrictive. As I stated before, 5 starring the final boss on pulse was the only one I had difficulty with, that was because it took 25 - 40 minutes of the same 'strategy' without me falling asleep!w

Switching paradigms is not a strategy, although most strategies will involve paradigm shifts. There is no formulaic procedure for going through the paradigms that is anywhere near optimal for the vast majority of fights. Outside of challenge-level play, no fight should ever take more than 10 minutes. Most bosses should be dead in less than 5 minutes and most wandering encounters should be dead within 90 seconds. If you were bored because you fought something for 20+ minutes without rethinking your strategy, that's on you.

[Odin1199]

So if you can't swap paradigms during battle, then you have to redo them until you find the best combos? Hmmm...Sounds abit tedious?