Sin, Dream Zanarkand theory

[the_savior21]

i know this is an over talked about topic but never have a read a post that went this into depth so hear me out and tell me what you think

first what i know is that jecht was lost at sea while training for blitzball, also yevon created the fayth at gagazet to preserve zanarkand as it was 1000 years ago. He did this when he knew the war with bevelle had been lost. Yevons first inteintion for sin was a shield to protect him while he summoned dream zanarkand. this is comfirmed while speaking with mika at the highbridge he says that yu yevon crafted the souls of the dead into an unholy armor or sin. When dream zanarkand was summoned yevon transformed to yu yevon and not long after yunalesca defeated sin using the final aeon. sin is reborn yu yevon attached himself to the the final aeon. until yunalesca destroyed sin it was only a shell for yu yevon and when it was destroyed yu yevon merged with zion and sin was reborn as the first sin that is known in modern spira.

pulling from all this we can assume that sin was created to protect dream zanarkand, dream zanarkand is an "aeon" of sorts born from the dreams and memories of the people of zanarkand that were made the fayth at gagazet. so sin is connected with dream zanarkand

my personal belief is that dream zanarkand is a place in spira but is unattainable by the people of spira.

summoner yucon's final aeon much like jecht did when he was sin may have had some control over sin after all sin does not possess a mind of its own it is the mind of yu yevon and the final aeon together. if we can assume this is true then we can guess that the person that choose to be yucon's final aeon was a rightous person like jecht rather then how seymour wanted to be with sin. therfore he may have been looking for a way out this is were this part gets iffy when sin killed yuna's mother braska decided to become a summoner this is a fact not long after the death of yuna's mother jecht appeared in spira and braska sought him out when he heard of his stories about zanarkand this is a fact.

i believe that this was a plan that arose from an accident by yucons final aeon

yunas mother died making braska want to become a summoner when this happened the plan began. but yu yevon was still using sin to protect dream zanarkand. during jechts training out at sea he comes into contact with sin and is warped to spira. ifso facto braska becomes high summoner jecht becomes sin

jecht and auron formulate the final plan and jecht takes him to be tidus mentor before sin is reborn.

tidus' move to besaid was the mark of the begining of their plan. auron hints at this when he asks sin if he was sure. thus begining the game


this is what my theory of sin, dream zanarkand, jecht, and the whole story is basically let me know if you find any flaws and give me your thoughts on what you think

[Zargabaath]

It is confirmed by the Ultimania and there are clues in the game that Dream Zanarkand is an actual place. It is Sin's job directed by what's left of Yu Yevon to protect Dream Zanarkand from the rest of Spira. This is attained by having Sin destroy any place that is becoming to technologically advanced that could discover the whereabouts of Dream Zanarkand.

I wouldn't call Dream Zanarkand an aeon. Simply a recreation of the height of Zanarkand.

As for your theory regarding the "accidental plan", punctuation is greatly needed as it is a jumbled mess. But I understand what you are trying to convey. The reason Jecht has some control of Sin is because he hears the Hymn of the Fayth. That is how he is able to regain "consciousness" and control Sin. This cannot lay over with the other Final Aeons because the game does not state if there was some mechanism for them as well.

However I must say your "plan" has no weight. First how can there be a plan that Braska, Jecht? The plan arises from incidental events, not pre-meditated. If you recall in the game, Jecht gives up hope returning home so he offers to become Sin. That is not the group planning anything or obvious to any plan.

Jecht and Auron don't formulate any plan. Jecht asks Auron to watch over Tidus because he believes Auron can find a way to Jecht's Zanarkand (Dream Zanarkand). Auron is able to find Dream Zanarkand by riding Sin, the perks of being unsent, out to see and entering Dream Zanarkand. It isn't until the beginning of the game that any plan begins. As said by you, when Auron asks Jecht if he is sure; Jecht is wanting to bring Tidus to Spira in hopes that he could defeat him, end this existence, and probably end the cycle.

[the_savior21]

yes that last part is what i meant by jechts plan maybe they didnt create a plan together but its like they both knew what was going to happen

Auron did the whole time but kept it quiet until the battle with yunalesca and while that was also revenge for him it was like he and jecht both knew what was to come

and yes i know some of that has no weight but it is total speculation alot of it cant be factual because there is no facts out there

[Michael-H]

..k

[the_savior21]

intellegent response there..

[Nas Lost]

nice theory. I props zarg for clearing some of it up too. Most people i know who played the game said the story didnt make sense but it made sense to me.

[Mindu]

I noticed an inconsistency the last time I played this. Throughout most of the story we are led to believe that the final summoning is the only thing powerful enough to defeat Sin, but every time it has been accomplished it has resulted in the death of the summoner. The events of the game prove otherwise, but that isn't my point. Although the details are never directly described, it is fair to assume (based on the nature of the final battle) that the summoner always dies because Yu Yevon possesses the Final Aeon and turns it upon its own summoner. If the Final Aeon can defeat Sin, then surely its own summoner wouldn't stand a chance? Despite this, the party fights and defeats three Final Aeons throughout the course of the game - and also defeats Sin's armour in a manner that suggests any group of warriors could have done it, given they had the right tactics and powerful enough machina. All they really did was distract and stun it while the airship blew off its fins.

Another inconsistency related to this is that Anima was technically Seymour's Final Aeon. It can be commanded by the party, and if you have it then it will be possessed by Yu Yevon in the final battle, to be defeated by your party a second time.

[Nas Lost]

I noticed an inconsistency the last time I played this. Throughout most of the story we are led to believe that the final summoning is the only thing powerful enough to defeat Sin, but every time it has been accomplished it has resulted in the death of the summoner. The events of the game prove otherwise, but that isn't my point. Although the details are never directly described, it is fair to assume (based on the nature of the final battle) that the summoner always dies because Yu Yevon possesses the Final Aeon and turns it upon its own summoner. If the Final Aeon can defeat Sin, then surely its own summoner wouldn't stand a chance? Despite this, the party fights and defeats three Final Aeons throughout the course of the game - and also defeats Sin's armour in a manner that suggests any group of warriors could have done it, given they had the right tactics and powerful enough machina. All they really did was distract and stun it while the airship blew off its fins.

Another inconsistency related to this is that Anima was technically Seymour's Final Aeon. It can be commanded by the party, and if you have it then it will be possessed by Yu Yevon in the final battle, to be defeated by your party a second time.

I think as far as any group of warriors could have defeated Sin, you are right. I think it is possible that people bought into the propganda and therefore did not give a full effort to fight sin(plus the lack of machina). Tidus just happened to come by luckily with his arrogant and doubting attitude

[Zargabaath]

So your first inconsistency is that Sin could be defeated by means other than through the Final Aeon despite what the game initially states, correct?

What three Final Aeons does the party defeat? Do you mean three separate ones or just three fights?

I am confused on what you are trying to state with your second inconsistency. If you could clarify that would help.

Thinking about how the party defeated Sin diminishes Sin's mystique of impregnability. With Vegnagun being the ultimate example, Bevelle had powerful machina during that time. Yet with Sin's appearance they turn tail and get a serious case of cowardice. The silly part is in game the cast uses a single airship to penetrate Sin's armor. You would think they would try to use their machina against Sin. However, it is not really an inconsistency because Yunalesca and the church leaders believe that Sin could not be permanently destroyed. It is a relative truth, not the absolute truth. As you said any group of warriors could have defeated Sin with the right tactics and machina. The problem was a majority of Spira thought within the confines of Yevon dogma - only the Final Aeon can defeat Sin. To go against that would be heresy. The great aspect of the party defeating Sin wasn't that they did defeat Sin, but that they went outside the bounds of Yevon's teachings, freed their minds.

I found that the game does state that after battling Sin with the Final Aeon, Yu Yevon, the spirit of Sin, takes over the Final Aeon and kills the summoner which is viewed as a sacrifice. It takes some time to get to the full truth of Sin but it is revealed.

[Nas Lost]

So your first inconsistency is that Sin could be defeated by means other than through the Final Aeon despite what the game initially states, correct?

What three Final Aeons does the party defeat? Do you mean three separate ones or just three fights?

I am confused on what you are trying to state with your second inconsistency. If you could clarify that would help.

Thinking about how the party defeated Sin diminishes Sin's mystique of impregnability. With Vegnagun being the ultimate example, Bevelle had powerful machina during that time. Yet with Sin's appearance they turn tail and get a serious case of cowardice. The silly part is in game the cast uses a single airship to penetrate Sin's armor. You would think they would try to use their machina against Sin. However, it is not really an inconsistency because Yunalesca and the church leaders believe that Sin could not be permanently destroyed. It is a relative truth, not the absolute truth. As you said any group of warriors could have defeated Sin with the right tactics and machina. The problem was a majority of Spira thought within the confines of Yevon dogma - only the Final Aeon can defeat Sin. To go against that would be heresy. The great aspect of the party defeating Sin wasn't that they did defeat Sin, but that they went outside the bounds of Yevon's teachings, freed their minds.

I found that the game does state that after battling Sin with the Final Aeon, Yu Yevon, the spirit of Sin, takes over the Final Aeon and kills the summoner which is viewed as a sacrifice. It takes some time to get to the full truth of Sin but it is revealed.

i agree with most of this except the Vegnagaun thing. Square had no plans of making a X-2, and i think they just threw that in the game for the sake of making the game, i dont base any X theories off of the sequel.

[Zargabaath]

Does not change the fact that Bevelle was winning the war from their superior machina. My inclusion of Vegnagun was an example of how powerful their technology had become. To not only create a machine that could destroy the world in a single strike, but to sense emotion. And while it Vegnagun comes in FFX-2, it is just an elaboration as to how advanced Bevelle's engineers were during the Machina War... which the won... because their machina were better than the summoners and their aeons.

[Nas Lost]

Does not change the fact that Bevelle was winning the war from their superior machina. My inclusion of Vegnagun was an example of how powerful their technology had become. To not only create a machine that could destroy the world in a single strike, but to sense emotion. And while it Vegnagun comes in FFX-2, it is just an elaboration as to how advanced Bevelle's engineers were during the Machina War... which the won... because their machina were better than the summoners and their aeons.

maybe Sin attacked them too quick before they could react

[Mindu]

So your first inconsistency is that Sin could be defeated by means other than through the Final Aeon despite what the game initially states, correct?

No, the inconsistency is that the four High Summoners before Yuna all died because their Final Aeons were used against them, but at the end of the game the party fights Braska's Final Aeon and survives. The other two Final Aeons I was referring to were Anima, and the aeon Yunalesca summons after you beat her second form. The second inconsistency was an elaboration on the first: the party defeats Anima during the game in addition to Braska's Final Aeon.

Your post has provided some clarity, though. If the High Summoner dying was seen as a sacrifice in Yevon's teachings then the summoner probably didn't try to fight back. Another explanation is that (as is referenced to during the story) Yuna has an unusually large group of Guardians, which may have made a difference in a battle against a Final Aeon. The previous High Summoners reportedly had very few, or just one, meaning that after obtaining a Final Aeon they were fighting against Sin alone.

[Zargabaath]

Well to begin: the Final Aeon kills its own summoner after defeating Sin. Jecht is not Yuna's Final Aeon therefore it wasn't supposed to kill her. Final Aeons don't traverse the world killing summoners. After Sin is defeated Yu Yevon takes over the Final Aeon and smites the summoner which can be seen as a sacrifice or - jokingly - because what is left of Yevon is pissed that Summoner defeated Sin and is getting back at them.

Hate to break it to you but Yunalesca does not summon her Final Aeon or any aeon after her second form. That is just her third form. Her final aeon was her husband Lord Zaon whose looks were revealed in FFX-2 in the fiend Paragon.

Once more the problem with Yuna is she did not have a Final Aeon and the game never delves into how the Final Aeon kills its summoner. Is it through a spiritual link that no guardian can stop? Does it punch the hell out of its summoner? Does it use its ultimate attack? That is a mystery which is null in Yuna's case because she does not have a Final Aeon. She and her guardians fight 2 final aeons but that does not mean they are to kill her. In Anima's case it is not possessed by Yevon during the Seymour fight so that instance is thrown out.

[Mindu]

Well to begin: the Final Aeon kills its own summoner after defeating Sin. Jecht is not Yuna's Final Aeon therefore it wasn't supposed to kill her. Final Aeons don't traverse the world killing summoners. After Sin is defeated Yu Yevon takes over the Final Aeon and smites the summoner which can be seen as a sacrifice or - jokingly - because what is left of Yevon is pissed that Summoner defeated Sin and is getting back at them.

Once more the problem with Yuna is she did not have a Final Aeon and the game never delves into how the Final Aeon kills its summoner. Is it through a spiritual link that no guardian can stop? Does it punch the hell out of its summoner? Does it use its ultimate attack? That is a mystery which is null in Yuna's case because she does not have a Final Aeon. She and her guardians fight 2 final aeons but that does not mean they are to kill her. In Anima's case it is not possessed by Yevon during the Seymour fight so that instance is thrown out.

It doesn't mean they are to kill her, yes, but it wouldn't make sense for them to hold back either. Seymour wanted to wipe out the party in the same way Yu Yevon did. Jecht on the other hand was being possessed by Yu Yevon, who would have wanted to wipe out Yuna and her party even more than he had Braska. The only way the plot point becomes consistent is if the previous High Summoners didn't try to fight the "sacrifice".

Hate to break it to you but Yunalesca does not summon her Final Aeon or any aeon after her second form. That is just her third form. Her final aeon was her husband Lord Zaon whose looks were revealed in FFX-2 in the fiend Paragon.

I don't know about Paragon, but the reason I thought the "third form" was an Aeon rather than a further transformation is because you can see Yunalesca standing behind it, back to normal.

[Zargabaath]

This is a case of plot strength vs battle strength. They don't always tend to match up. Againwe don't know how the Final Aeon exactly kills the summoner. And once more they are not Yuna's Final Aeon. Yeah, they could kill her but so could the chocobo eater. Final Aeons don't have "rampage" trait when any old summoner is nearby. What said they were holding back more so in Jecht's case who said he won't? As we come to find out and from the history of Spira aeons can be defeated. The Final Aeon's strength comes from the bond of summoner and the person who became the Final Aeon. Its ability is to be able to pierce through Sin's armor. It could be that this ability is only for Sin. In the end there be no inconsistency because Yuna does not have a Final Aeon.

[Nas Lost]

Tidus sang the hymme of the faythe to distract Jecht so maybe that caused him to be weaker so thats why they won?

[VVQvyh001]

I always assumed that the power of the actual summoning of the final aeon was too strong to withstand and that the summoner would die due to this and the aeon would then be fighting sin solo so to speak.

[Nas Lost]

I always assumed that the power of the actual summoning of the final aeon was too strong to withstand and that the summoner would die due to this and the aeon would then be fighting sin solo so to speak.

i thought this in the beginning. oh well, maybe they will go more into detail in the remake i hope

[Zargabaath]

i thought this in the beginning. oh well, maybe they will go more into detail in the remake i hope

The only detail left is exactly how the summoner is killed. The game explains the process quite clearly. Summoner calls Final Aeon. Final Aeon defeats Sin. Yu Yevon posses Final Aeon. Possessed Final Aeon kills summoner.

What details would you be wanting?

[Nas Lost]

The only detail left is exactly how the summoner is killed. The game explains the process quite clearly. Summoner calls Final Aeon. Final Aeon defeats Sin. Yu Yevon posses Final Aeon. Possessed Final Aeon kills summoner.

What details would you be wanting?

i didnt know the aon killed the summoner. all i remember was "sacrifice". its been about 7 years since i last played the game, my memories fuzzy haha.

[VVQvyh001]

The only detail left is exactly how the summoner is killed. The game explains the process quite clearly. Summoner calls Final Aeon. Final Aeon defeats Sin. Yu Yevon posses Final Aeon. Possessed Final Aeon kills summoner.

What details would you be wanting?

It might just be my memory failing me but I can't recall it ever being stated that after the battle with sin the final aeon is possessed and by Yu Yevon and then kills the summoner, are we to assume that previous battles with sin went the same way as Yuna's, Tidus' etc fight did?

I only say that because their were many unique factors in the battle with Yuna's party and Sin, machina being used and boarding sin in such a manner for example.

[Mindu]

Like Zargabaath said, exactly how the summoner was killed is never directly stated, just that they were all killed by their own Final Aeon. Yevon's teachings may have prevented them from trying to resist being killed. Or like Zargabaath suggested it was a spiritual link between summoner and guardian that the guardians couldn't interfere with. In the beginning I also thought the power required to summon the Final Aeon was what killed the summoner, like Tellah using Meteo, but this is contradicted by Seymour and Yuna being able to summon Anima without dying, and possibly by Yunalesca - I noticed nobody refuted my claim about her being seen behind the third form.

Another explanation is the previous High Summoners having far fewer guardians when their Final Aeon turned on them, as opposed to Yuna having six when she fought Jecht. Yunalesca had no guardians other than her husband; after Jecht became a fayth Braska had only Auron, and I remember it being stated Ohalland and the female High Summoner had just one, who would have become Final Aeons.

[VVQvyh001]

Like Zargabaath said, exactly how the summoner was killed is never directly stated, just that they were all killed by their own Final Aeon. Yevon's teachings may have prevented them from trying to resist being killed. Or like Zargabaath suggested it was a spiritual link between summoner and guardian that the guardians couldn't interfere with. In the beginning I also thought the power required to summon the Final Aeon was what killed the summoner, like Tellah using Meteo, but this is contradicted by Seymour and Yuna being able to summon Anima without dying, and possibly by Yunalesca - I noticed nobody refuted my claim about her being seen behind the third form.

Another explanation is the previous High Summoners having far fewer guardians when their Final Aeon turned on them, as opposed to Yuna having six when she fought Jecht. Yunalesca had no guardians other than her husband; after Jecht became a fayth Braska had only Auron, and I remember it being stated Ohalland and the female High Summoner had just one, who would have become Final Aeons.

Again it might be my memory but I dont think Anima was ever a "final aeon" but simply an aeon created by Seymours mother when she give her life and became a faythe. I dont recall any mention of Seymours mother being the final aeon used in a battle with Sin.

[Zargabaath]

Again it might be my memory but I dont think Anima was ever a "final aeon" but simply an aeon created by Seymours mother when she give her life and became a faythe. I dont recall any mention of Seymours mother being the final aeon used in a battle with Sin.

More along the lines of technicality. While heading to the Zanarkand temple in the blitzball stadium the pyreflies play a scene from the past where Seymour's mother is taking Seymour to the temple so she can become the Final Aeon. Seymour doesn't want her to do that because he wants to spend more time with his mother.

In the beginning I also thought the power required to summon the Final Aeon was what killed the summoner, like Tellah using Meteo, but this is contradicted by Seymour and Yuna being able to summon Anima without dying,

More importantly the game says so. With the script. Seems to be a lot of oversight or refreshment needing to take place.

Rikku:With the Final Aeon, she can beat Sin. But
then...but then... If she calls it, the Final Aeon's going to kill her! Even if
she defeats Sin, it will kill Yunie too, you know!

Auron:Braska will call the Final Aeon... He will
fight Sin, then die. I thought my mind was made up long before. But when I
stood here, my resolve wavered.

Recall Lord Gandof's battle with Sin: During his final battle with Sin, Gandof left his mark with the formation of a huge rift in Calm Lands known as "the Scar".

and possibly by Yunalesca - I noticed nobody refuted my claim about her being seen behind the third form.

This is Yunalesca final form and after watching a video of that form on youtube I did not see any sign of her behind the third form. Besides how could it be her Final Aeon if it is referred to as Yunalesca 3rd Form?

Another explanation is the previous High Summoners having far fewer guardians when their Final Aeon turned on them, as opposed to Yuna having six when she fought Jecht. Yunalesca had no guardians other than her husband; after Jecht became a fayth Braska had only Auron, and I remember it being stated Ohalland and the female High Summoner had just one, who would have become Final Aeons.

It was a ritual killing which is why the high summoners died. No attempt. Besides Yuna doesn't have her own Final Aeon therefore it is moot.

An actual inconsistency would be: Yuna receives the Final Aeon from Yunalesca. Engages Sin with the Final Aeon. Defeats Sin. And either

a) Yu Yevon possess Yuna's Final Aeon but does not kill her or...

b) Yuna's Final Aeon was able to vanquish Yu Yevon as well by luck (a.k.a DeM) therefore the Final Aeon does not kill her.

You are just trying to create something out of nothing.

[Mindu]

More along the lines of technicality. While heading to the Zanarkand temple in the blitzball stadium the pyreflies play a scene from the past where Seymour's mother is taking Seymour to the temple so she can become the Final Aeon. Seymour doesn't want her to do that because he wants to spend more time with his mother.

The thing I'm failing to remember is why Anima was moved to the Baaj Temple. Did Seymour just store the fayth there, or was there another reason?

More importantly the game says so. With the script. Seems to be a lot of oversight or refreshment needing to take place.

Rikku:With the Final Aeon, she can beat Sin. But
then...but then... If she calls it, the Final Aeon's going to kill her! Even if
she defeats Sin, it will kill Yunie too, you know!

Auron:Braska will call the Final Aeon... He will
fight Sin, then die. I thought my mind was made up long before. But when I
stood here, my resolve wavered.

Fair enough.

This is Yunalesca final form and after watching a video of that form on youtube I did not see any sign of her behind the third form. Besides how could it be her Final Aeon if it is referred to as Yunalesca 3rd Form?

I watched the video myself before I originally posted in this thread. When the third form dies, the camera shifts and you can see Yunalesca behind the huge head, attached to it in the same way she was with the second form. To be honest, the second and third form look like the same monster; following the death of the second form the head comes out of the ground.

You are just trying to create something out of nothing.

I wouldn't bother. All I was doing is pointing out what I thought to be inconsistent when I last played it. Actually, my last post here was mostly elaborating on something you had said.

[JamesLomax]

Well to begin: the Final Aeon kills its own summoner after defeating Sin. Jecht is not Yuna's Final Aeon therefore it wasn't supposed to kill her. Final Aeons don't traverse the world killing summoners. After Sin is defeated Yu Yevon takes over the Final Aeon and smites the summoner which can be seen as a sacrifice or - jokingly - because what is left of Yevon is pissed that Summoner defeated Sin and is getting back at them.

Hate to break it to you but Yunalesca does not summon her Final Aeon or any aeon after her second form. That is just her third form. Her final aeon was her husband Lord Zaon whose looks were revealed in FFX-2 in the fiend Paragon.

Once more the problem with Yuna is she did not have a Final Aeon and the game never delves into how the Final Aeon kills its summoner. Is it through a spiritual link that no guardian can stop? Does it punch the hell out of its summoner? Does it use its ultimate attack? That is a mystery which is null in Yuna's case because she does not have a Final Aeon. She and her guardians fight 2 final aeons but that does not mean they are to kill her. In Anima's case it is not possessed by Yevon during the Seymour fight so that instance is thrown out.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't yu yevon turn the final aeon into sin?

[the_savior21]

Your not wrong but your not right either yu yevon possess sin, sin is created from the final aeon when the final aeon destroys sin yu yevon attaches to the new final aeon kills the summoner and then goes into hiding until it grows into the sin the world knows thus restarting the cycle

[Kyrel]

The Ultimania states that the mental bond that the Summoner has with the Final Aeon is so strong that once the Final Aeon turns against the Summoner and the Summoner is forced to kill it, he/she ends up dying as well as the mental link is broken abruptly.

[the_savior21]

Even though that came from the ultimania i don't think that's 100% right because in the very end of the game when you fight the 7 aeons then yu yevon, the reason you have to fight the aeons is because once you kill braskas final aeon yu yevon detaches from it and begins attaching to each aeon yuna summons. Plus if the the reason the summoner dies is because he/she kills the final aeon and then dies because of the mental connection breaking abruptly how is it that the party is the ones to kill braskas final aeon. Like i said yu yevon possesses the final aeon kills the summoner and becomes the next sin.