Squall is Dead

[Rowan]

Didnt find this anymore on this forum, thought it might be worth discussing. Dont know if its considered as playing stairway to heaven in a guitar store, but as mentioned, I didnt see it posted anywhere. This is the theory about how squall actually died from impalement at the end of disc one and the events beyond were just dreams or squalls imagination going wild before his death about the events that could have took place. In what we consider a 'flash before you eyes' type of thing.

What I wanted to focus on most was how farfetched the theory of his death is compared to the events of the game.

this is how we bridge the gap between plausibility and nonsense.

For those of you who do not know what I'm talking about, here is the link to the site with all the information.

Squall is Dead, Events beyond Edea are a dream.


What do I believe? I believe that when you write a story about time travel, you have to be open to certain ideas that almost anything can be possible. In this case, I think the subtlety of his death was far too much to be true... but then theres just so much in the game that doesnt make sense, and it all starts happened after disc one. Ill leave you to read the article and then post your thought and opinions here. In my mind, the ending of the game is the most influential in supporting the theory. The babble that ultimecia is speaking before she explodes into a 16bit mess. The landscape surrounding squall, the isolation at the end, purgatory.

As i've written this ive just realised something.

Do you remember the intro? How squalls sword falls from the sky after rinoa releases it as a feather and lands in the ground? That exact same sound can be heard at the end of the game where squall appears to die after shedding a tear and everything fades to white. Note, edea was also there before the sword fell.
The feather that gets turned into the sword in the intro, can then be seen floating down to white nothingness at the end of the game.

perhaps this is just very inctricate clever imagery, or perhaps this is another clue.

Everything we are viewing at the end of the game, only happens on disc 1, prior to the events of his impalement. All the flashbacks, the images. Distorted somewhat, the memorys are fading.

I have concluded this can be only 1 of 2 things. It can either be a bunch of careful orchestrated images that hint to us that something more is going on or it could mean the other thing, which is absolutley nothing, a random montage of images with no purpose. When Its put like that, you would tend to believe the first answer.

If you can find anything else about the game thats somewhat interesting, such as the imagery in the start of the game and its relation to the end of the game, then put it down so we can figure this thing out.



EDIT:

here what I mean about the sound in the into and at the end of the game (as well as the feather and imagery so forth)



1:00 - 1:27 is where we see the feather turning into the sword and Edea and the sound it makes at 1:24 is the exact sound that we hear at the end where squall has suddenly died (he shed a tear and fell).



4:26, the sound is heard as he 'dies'.

Also taking note that the scene directly before he 'dies' did not actually happen during gameplay, so why is it there if not to be analysed?
It seems to me like everyone just ignores all these events and skips to the happy ending without a second thought.

Just a final note, when I say 'dies' I mean it in such a way as that he is finally about to stop fantasizing about the events (since they've come to an end I suppose?)
The theory retains the belief that he died when edea impaled him at the end of disc 1.

[Xanatos]

We already covered this theory here on TFF not too long ago, it certainly sounds interesting and covers quite a few plot holes, but same as with Rino/Ultimecia theory, Square officially ditched this.

[Rowan]

We already covered this theory here on TFF not too long ago, it certainly sounds interesting and covers quite a few plot holes, but same as with Rino/Ultimecia theory, Square officially ditched this.

oh.. Well if someone could source me square saying what happened at the ending if be totally cool with it.

edit:
wow, Im actually the last post in that thread too. I've got a bad memory.

just did some research and square has never spoken about the ending to ff8 no on any theories to do with it. The only information I could find was that there was a question presented to someone representing square about the lifespan of the sorceress being that similar to a human so therefor that would make the rinoa ultimecia theory uneralistic, although theres actually not enough evidence to verify the claims made by the person who asked this supposed representative.

[Michael Swayne]

I read the theory back when it was in the old thread. It is definitely worth the read. I found it thought provoking; but in my opinion, not likely.

I don't think Squall is "dead" throughout the game because it is a Final Fantasy game. The series has shown that characters can fall from great heights and not die (or even be injured in any way), for example.

If it were revealed that Squall is indeed dead throughout the game, then I believe it would turn a lot of people off toward VIII. Now, I would always rush through the game, because I thought the story was bland compared to other FF games I played, so I am probably not one to talk much on this. But I know for me, I want the hero to live at the end. If Squall died, I would forever only play Disc 1.

"Hey look, Edea just killed Squall. Oh well, time to play something else."

But I do like the fact that this game has some people thinking "what ifs" and "what abouts".

[loaf]

This must be at least the 3rd time I've seen it on the forums.

By far a crazy theory and whoever started it went to great lengths to back it up. But still, I don't believe it. Not enough hard evidence.

[Heartless Angel]

Though Square officially said this wasn't true, I still choose to play the game under that assumption. It makes it make so much more sense, and takes it above and beyond the all too cliche hero gets the girl saves the world and in one fell swoop goes from being a nobody who no one has even heard of the to savior of the planet loved by all, it really gets kind of boring after a while. I enjoyed the game so much more playing it with the Squall is Dead theory in mind.

There are a few other reason I choose to follow this theory, among them, FFX also revealing that the protagonist is 'dead' or never really alive in the first place. And that's the official interpretation, so we know Square doesn't ALWAYS give us a happy ending and isn't opposed to death of the hero. Actually I have replayed a lot of the FFs looking to see if there were more 'protagonist is dead' hints, and X is actually one I was able to see that in even before he died at the end.

Another one that I noticed much later was Crisis Core. During the death of Zack, we see a lot of similarities to the apparent death of Squall. During the course of the last battle, his life flashes before his eyes through the limit break slot machine whateverthe****it'scalled. Also flashing back to the first times he met the people close to him, trying desperately to hold on to Aerith to the very end, but eventually she fades away and he loses her too. There's also the recurring image of the clouds opening just after death to let the sun shine through on the fallen hero, and the white feathers, in this case the feathers of Angeal. Probably just a coincidence, but it did strike me as odd that the end of Crisis Core when we know for a fact the protagonist died reminded me so much of the Squall is Dead Theory and had symbols in common with its ending. (Just throwing it out there, the first thing we see after Tidus 'dies' in X is Yuna looking out to sea where she sees seagulls, more white feathers, though that's way too much of a stretch for me to bring up as its own point)

[Hero without a Name]

I do recall seeing the FMV at the end of Disc 1 and I'm like....what the crap? They're killing off the main character already? Now I don't have any huge information regarding him dying though I do remember something about this.

If you look closely in the video, where Squall was actually attacked did not go through his heart. Although he may of lost a lung or a kidney, a human can still survive from that attack...granted they would be lucky, but they could still survive.

As much as I love VIII, there have been loopholes in the game. Specially with Ultmecia, the fact that she just showed up in the game in the 3rd disc was just weird to me but ah well

[CrazedMonkey]

I do recall seeing the FMV at the end of Disc 1 and I'm like....what the crap? They're killing off the main character already? Now I don't have any huge information regarding him dying though I do remember something about this.

If you look closely in the video, where Squall was actually attacked did not go through his heart. Although he may of lost a lung or a kidney, a human can still survive from that attack...granted they would be lucky, but they could still survive.

As much as I love VIII, there have been loopholes in the game. Specially with Ultmecia, the fact that she just showed up in the game in the 3rd disc was just weird to me but ah well

Actually, Ultimecia was there since Edea's introduction. Edea's speech in Delling was actually Ultimecia voicing her hatred for the world that created her. You just don't find out Ultimecia is pulling the strings until Disc 3

[Mystyrion]

If you look closely in the video, where Squall was actually attacked did not go through his heart. Although he may of lost a lung or a kidney, a human can still survive from that attack...granted they would be lucky, but they could still survive.

The ice shard isn't even on the same side as his heart.
Either way I think it would be the fall that kills him.

[che]

I want to believe this theory more than I actually believe it, because it'd make the shittiest FF game in the series better, and add depth to Mr. "Whatever".

[Rowan]

just for the record, square never 'denied' anything in relation to this theory. If you wish to make a claim, you have to back it up. This isn't a debate about god where you can just make claims with no evidence, if somone says that someone denied something, you need to provide a source for the information.

[the_savior21]

I want to believe this theory more than I actually believe it, because it'd make the shittiest FF game in the series better, and add depth to Mr. "Whatever".

wow really the worst FF game in the series idk how you can even live with yourself after that statement there is a reason that nobody asks for and FFVIII Remake and its because they nailed it the first time but im not here to argue i just strongly disagree with your point but i digress.

The theory does a correction from Rowen's original post there are a few things that happen in his second video that are in fact not part of disc one.

At 3:17 It shows Rinoa lost in space just as it did in disc 3
At 3:33 It shows the rings that are around her neck while she is lost in space
At 3:38 It shows flashes of the ragnorok ship
At 3:40 It shows Rinoa when she would be on the deck of balamb garden while it Is in motion which would have to be after disc 2
At 3:15 It shows flashes of ultimecia which her image was not revealed until the end of disk 2 after the second battle with edea when you get alexander

also after that further into the ending fmv when laguna is at raine's grave balamb garden flies over head and he waves so obviously this is after the fact of the ultimecia battle and also means that the events where squall made the garden mobile actually did transpire because A. if not the garden still would be standing back were it is in the start of the game (assuming the missle attack didnt actually happen) B. would laguna even know of balamb garden like that if he had never met squall and the gang?


i dont know which theory to actually believe because both of them seem likely enough so im torn between the two. my previous paragraph is evidence enough for me to believe that he went through the game alive while the evidence that rowen put out no offence intended of coarse is just pure speculation

either way i am still torn on the situation because of the soul fact that speculation is what lead the world to what it is today

also i did not intend to offend che i simply disagreed with him

[che]

wow really the worst FF game in the series idk how you can even live with yourself after that statement there is a reason that nobody asks for and FFVIII Remake and its because they nailed it the first time but im not here to argue i just strongly disagree with your point but i digress.

I respect your opinion yo. I laughed at your response. But on the real, I think FFVIII was the worst FF (I don't count anything before FFV due to technology and starting with FFVII) due to bland characters alone. The rest was great.

[the_savior21]

very well then the charactars are a bit bland i will agree with you there

was gonna edit the previous post but figured i might as well just continue on but if you watch the ending fmv all the way till after the credits were selphie and irvine are shooting the camera squall and rinoa are out on the balcony which means he very well cant be dead

[Squall]

I just think the theory is a case of people overthinking the game's plot wayyyy too much. What would be the upside to having the protagonist killed off not even a quarter of the way through the game? It's well written and shows a pretty strong imagination, but not something I can find possible. I think it's a bit of a reach but that's just me.

[the_savior21]

Its a bit more then a quarter through the game disc one is the longest disk and disk four is very short so it probably close to a third

[loaf]

Disc 1 isn't short lol wut?

It's your pre exam, the exam, the mission(with like 2 small things added). End of Disc 1.

Disc 2 is longer then 1 and 3 is about the same as 2.

[the_savior21]

well i guess in terms of the story you are in fact correct i guess it just seems longest for me cuz most playthroughs i grind on disk 1 so i to like 12 hours i never really thought about that i spend so much time on disc one but loaf you are right

[Rowan]

Im working on a video now using adobe premiere that will depict another story within ff8 that will include some of the themes we've talked about here. I plan to structure the scenes in such a way that it will be easy for you to understand the underlying scenario that I'm going to portray using cgi and regular scenes from the game.

Hopefully it works out. Wont be done for a while though.

[Sheechiibii]

Okay. I did read this theory ages ago and found it interesting and kinda a fun and different way to see things. But I don't believe it, most of it doesn't really make much sense. The ice shard went more through his shoulder than anywhere near his heart and even if it had been more on his chest it was on the wrong side. The fall really wasn't very far, those parade floats weren't even taller than one person which is not so far. You could just as easily say he dies right at the begining of the game really.

There are plenty sections in the end sequence that are memories from after the Edea incident. The part where Rinoa falls towards him is from when he saved her from imprisonment and you see her in space as well, and the part where she is on the balcony in Balamb Garden from when it first flew. So it's not all from early in the game.

Also another big problem with this is the ending. If he dies properly at that point then how is he there afterwards? When Rinoa finds him and then when they are on the balcony together and they kiss? If he's dead then what is that?

Xx..xX

[Benihime2059]

On mine at the end Squall stabbed himself

[Odin1199]

The ending clip says otherwise, unless you think it's a projection of a dying wish. If it were so, the game would give at least a few hints.

[Rowan]

The game gave subtle hints. Its just a matter of whether or not you agree that there's enough to suggest that things might not be what they seem.

[Odin1199]

Let's put it this way. It's a way crazier and cooler ending, if he survived. That's why I choose to like it more. And in FF games, endings are usually all non tragic.

[Squall's Gunblade]

I do recall seeing the FMV at the end of Disc 1 and I'm like....what the crap? They're killing off the main character already? Now I don't have any huge information regarding him dying though I do remember something about this.

If you look closely in the video, where Squall was actually attacked did not go through his heart. Although he may of lost a lung or a kidney, a human can still survive from that attack...granted they would be lucky, but they could still survive.

As much as I love VIII, there have been loopholes in the game. Specially with Ultmecia, the fact that she just showed up in the game in the 3rd disc was just weird to me but ah well

I'm pretty sure the ice shard went through his shoulder.

Square wouldn't kill the main character in the first disc, if they honestly wanted to kill squall off they would of done it at the end much like in crisis core and FFX!

It's one of those things that leave question marks around and gets people second guessing things it's what makes FF one of the best, if not THE best game franchises out there. The fact that 13 years on and people can still debate on events such as squall dying or not dying makes it that bit more unique!

[Bubblegum]

Yeah Squall is dead alright. He killed himself because fans kept on making up silly theories about his game.

May he RIP.

]:

Also the site that this theory comes from- come on. It's so clear that it's from a troll with pictures of in a hole in Squall's face everywhere to scare everybody.

A] Create a theory that's bound to get FF8 fans in a fizzle.

B] Scare the crap out of them while they try and defend their game.

[Squall's Gunblade]

Playing through the game again and I completely forgot that after squall wakes up he notices that he doesn't have a wound from the ice bolt, bit weird that I never really looked into it that much till now!

[Kyrel]

You can present me with a thousand theories based on half-second pictures, sounds, and plot connections. It doesn't change the fact that the plot has been canonically explained by square, and is pretty evident throughout the game. People just have fun believing this.

[EmperorLeo]

You can really poke a hole in the theory because you fight her from the future, while she's manipulating the past. She's a time mage really, but a super advanced one.

Think about it - if you destroy the one thing that keeps the future Ultimecia built intact, what's left? The distorted memories and freaky stuff that happen could be Squall's mind being influenced by the time loop and being pulled back into his time. That's all opinion, and there's no facts there to prove it, but you're messing with time. Time and space are like cousins (that's how I've always seen them), so distorting time could also distort space too.

We only get to see this from Squall's perspective, so there's the chance that everyone else saw this but with a different "trigger" for them (Squall's being the white feather). Rinoa's could easily be the ring Squall gave her. I haven't played the game in a while, so I can't think of one for each character.