Reply With QuoteI hate it when they do that!Originally Posted by Rowan
How can you hate an angel? seriously. Lets not forget, its Aeris that literally saved the world via manipulation of the lifestream.
I hate it when they do that!
I really disliked Aerith's character. Mostly because I dislike Mary-sue characters, they're just so badly written and unrealistic.
"Everyone was so happy. 'Great job. You did it. You saved us... all.' There were too many smiles to count.
But now...When I look back... The people who should be here aren't.
The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here."
I like Aerith, but that really only goes as far as the original game. In Crisis Core and other materials, I just..
Eh. I don't dislike her in those but she doesn't interest me either. Same goes for most other characters, actually.
I swear she only did it to impress Cloud though.
Aerith
"And let me handle Sephiroth."
(She starts giggling, turns pure white, and disappears. She comes out from
behind yet another tree.)
Aerith
"And Cloud, you take care of yourself."
Aerith
"It's only a matter of time before Sephiroth uses Meteor."
"That's why I'm going to protect it. Only a survivor of the
Cetra, like me, can do it."
(She turns and walks a distance into the forest. She turns back to face
Cloud.)
Aerith
"At least it should be. ...I feel it. It feels like I'm being led
by something."
(She cocks her head to one side and waves, cutely, femininely, childishly,
to Cloud.)
Aerith
"Then, I'll be going now. I'll come back when it's all over."
Cloud
"Aerith?"
<< Total Aerith fanboy here.
Not really anything more to say...
Mary -Sue?! Actually, she is more independent than Mary sue/fan service Tifa. She wasn't suppose to be the main cast in the first place.
Do people actually forgot the game? She isn't mary sue at all unlike some characters in FF. I won't say.
What is a Mary Sue? Give me the definition of what a Mary Sue is and I guarantee you Aerith fits the description perfectly. Being independent has nothing to do with whether a character is a Mary Sue or not. Neither does being in the main cast.
"Everyone was so happy. 'Great job. You did it. You saved us... all.' There were too many smiles to count.
But now...When I look back... The people who should be here aren't.
The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here."
You didn't gave me a definition. Based on the game, Aerith isn't a Mary Sue. She lived in the slums. She escape the Turks several times. She saves Cloud and Tifa because she is streetsmart (You got be tought living in the slums.) She accepts being a Cetra, unlike some characters like Terra who didn't accept her powers at all first. She is the only character in the game isn't so hopeless.
I don't think you have not played the game at all. Don't tell me that Aerith is a Mary Sue because she wears pink. (illogical answer).
A Mary Sue is a character is a character who is too 'perfect' to be realistic - modesty, beauty, kindness, selflessness, every trait they have is a good one, they're almost always martyrs too, and any negatives in their lives are there only to show how good a person they are. All those things you describe there - those are all Mary Sue traits, every single one of them.
What she wears has nothing to do with it, neither does where she lives (although in this case her attitude towards living in the slums is a typical Mary-Sue character attitude too).
"Everyone was so happy. 'Great job. You did it. You saved us... all.' There were too many smiles to count.
But now...When I look back... The people who should be here aren't.
The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here."
Um...No.
I'm describing that she isn't a cute-cutter as you describe. How her attitude is kindness or sweet? She has also have imperfections. One of them is that she is too determined which one of the reasons why she was little bit native to handle against Sephorith and let to her death. Her life isn't perfect either. The Turks killed her parents. Her foster mother protected her from them. Even her friend, Zack didn't responded her letters (you know why). She is the last Cetra or Ancient. She was carried a big responsibility because she was the key to save the planet and she knows little about her heritage.
She was the driving force in VII along when Cloud. Hardly a Mary Sue.
Sorry but being 'too determined' is precisely the type of 'imperfections' Mary Sues would have, imperfections that are not actually imperfect. Being overly determined is not a bad character trait and that is just another example of why she is a Mary Sue. The Turks killing her parents has nothing to do with her character being a Mary Sue other than the way she behaves because of it, and does she hate the Turks? No she does not, like a good little Mary Sue she doesn't want revenge or anything, she's forgiving of those who have hurt her. Carrying a big responsibility? Also a trait of a Mary Sue. Being the 'key to saving the planet' - these are exactly the types of things you expect from Mary Sue characters! You're only helping to further illustrate how much of a Mary Sue Aerith is.
Last edited by Sheechiibii; 03-27-2014 at 07:32 PM.
"Everyone was so happy. 'Great job. You did it. You saved us... all.' There were too many smiles to count.
But now...When I look back... The people who should be here aren't.
The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here."
If Aerith is a Mary Sue, wouldn't that also make Rosa from Final Fantasy IV a Mary Sue as well?
I don't know, I haven't played IV. But I know Aerith definitely is a Mary Sue.
"Everyone was so happy. 'Great job. You did it. You saved us... all.' There were too many smiles to count.
But now...When I look back... The people who should be here aren't.
The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here."
How did you feel when she died? Did any of you grow attached to her?
Also Rosa was a "Mary Sue" because she had to help Cecil fight his own guilt and boost his morale. It's not really a Mary Sue, more like being caring in general. Mary Sue is being a smart ass nancy who has to be the moral judge all the time.
What the hell are you people talking about?
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
Play IV. Rosa was a Mary Sue according to your logic. Same as Riona, Yuna, Garnett.....
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What are you talking about? First you said that Mary Sue are perfect martyrs but then you said they have imperfections? Please make up your mind if you changing your arguement.
Anyway, Aerith hardly a Mary Sue because as she learns about herself as the last Ancient, she became very close to Cloud (if you played the game).
Honestly, I thought Tifa is a Mary Sue. There is nothing interesting about her in my opinion.
Garnet/Dagger most definitely not. She was highly vulnerable, inexperienced, depended on others, somewhat even jealous if you think about it, I would even go as far as to say limited as she only ever experienced a tiny world inside her castle, even though she eventually grew into stronger character I find her to be vastly different from Aerith, how you find her to be by anyone's logic let alone Sheechiibii's a Mary Sue is beyond me.
What does Aerith being fond of Cloud and learning about her origin have to do with her being a Mary Sue or not? You literally just wrote a random piece of plot line that has nothing to do with what Sheechiibii is claiming as a mean to defend your point... get your shit together.Anyway, Aerith hardly a Mary Sue because as she learns about herself as the last Ancient, she became very close to Cloud (if you played the game).
Dull character does not make one a Mary Sue.Honestly, I thought Tifa is a Mary Sue. There is nothing interesting about her in my opinion.
Sig and Avy made by Unknown Entity
No I said they have no imperfections. People who try and point out their 'imperfections' can find nothing that are real imperfections. Like determination, that is not an imperfection at all, that is a positive character trait. You were the one who tried to say it was an imperfection when it is not. I think some people don't grasp what a Mary Sue is. It has nothing to do with who she grew close to or how interesting her story is, whether a character is a Mary Sue or not is entirely based upon their characteristics. It's a bad writing thing. It's a character who is not written realistically because they have no flaws and all their characteristics are good, which nobody realistically is like.
Rinoa is not a Mary Sue because she has negative character traits: she's very immature for starters, she can be selfish too and makes stupid mistakes because she doesn't think things through.
Yuna is not a Mary Sue because she has negative character traits: her naivete is pretty astounding, so is her blind obedience. She totally lacks the ability to think for herself for most of the game.
Garnet, again, is not a Mary Sue because she has negative character traits: she's naive too, but not nearly as bas as Yuna, she's also very entitled, and can be selfish. Not to mention she can't handle pressure at all.
I could list more negatives for these characters but I think these are the most obvious ones.
If you tried to make a list of negative traits Aerith's character has you wouldn't find any, because her character has no negative traits. In all three of the above characters you see times when they show they are not perfect, they are, like real people, not able to be their best all the time. Aerith, in contrast, is always good, never shows any negatives in her character and that is what a Mary Sue is.
"Everyone was so happy. 'Great job. You did it. You saved us... all.' There were too many smiles to count.
But now...When I look back... The people who should be here aren't.
The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here."
HOW dare you hold that opinion.
I thought that Aeris was one of the least interesting characters. Horribly cliche once you think about it. Oh she's the last of her kind, adopted into the middle of the slums, where her house is the only one that's remotely nice (allegory to her being intrinsically "good"). Of course everyone is after her because she's special in some way. She encounters the protagonist by chance, and he winds up trying to protect/escort her to where she has to go. Bad guy kills her (OK, slight deviation), but she ultimately winds up being the major proponent to saving the day.
Ultimately, Aeris is just that really, really nice girl who everyone pretty much likes because she's so nice. Then she dies. It's tragic, yes, but her niceness doesn't make her interesting. Her people might have an interesting background, but it's not at all a tale of survival like Nanaki and his parents deaths. Now THAT is interesting stuff.
To be fair, she becomes more interesting after her death, but I don't really consider that all that fair. She was largely bland compared to the other characters.
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
Fair, but I argue something you might have looked over. Whilst she is somewhat the cliche' of her character, her death was necessary for her character to have meant something. Aeris knew she was going to die (making her a martyr) and that she had to die in order to protect the planet, as holy was not (nor was it ever) strong enough to stop meteor. Perhaps Aeries knew what she was supposed to do from the begining. All I know is that the last scene of the game where the light blinds everybody and then it shows aeris back praying with the lifestream floating is quite a powerful scene. I dont know if that makes her character more interesting, but keep that in mind.
Did she really know she was going to die though? She didn't seem to be aware that Sephiroth was going to actually kill her, even if she knew he was following her.
Aerith does seem quite childlike in some respects. You could say either 'innocent' to put a positive spin on it, or 'naïve' to portray it as a character flaw.
I think that one person's Mary Sue is another person's heroine.
Sorry. She is a definitely a Mary Sue. She wasn't suppose to be in the game in the first place. Really, VII suppose to have three main characters, Barrett, Cloud, and Aerith. She doesn't even fit the story in VII and it's theme. The only thing that saved her character besides her boobs and her abilities is her un-CLOSE childhood relationship to Cloud. Tifa don't even cared about Cloud before he went to Midgar to be a SOLIDER. Heck, she thought Cloud saved her. It was the flirting happy go lucky Zack.
If you play half of the disk, she was trying so hard to flirt with Cloud. It failed hard. Plus, she was jealous to Aerith.
She was the most least interesting character in VII.
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So does most of the entire FF females. They are inexperienced and depended on others until later on the protagonist help them to become stronger. Big difference between your favorite FF gal and my FF gal are that Aerith IS ALREADY INDEPENDENT AND EXPERIENCE. What is so different that Aerith is helping the protagonist Cloud than Zidane (male form of a Mary Sue in my opinion) is helping the deuteragonist , Garnet. That's makes her different than the rest of the FF females. Plus, she SAVED THE WORLD. Usually, a male protagonist saves the world in FF. She is the first FF female actually saves the world. (Celes and Terra don't count because they had a cast to defeat Kefka).
Aerith, Lighting, Celes, Terra, Rydia, and Faris are the most independent FF females.
Aerith is NO MARY SUE. She is the most popular and important character in FF.
[/QUOTE]What does Aerith being fond of Cloud and learning about her origin have to do with her being a Mary Sue or not? You literally just wrote a random piece of plot line that has nothing to do with what Sheechiibii is claiming as a mean to defend your point... get your shit together.
And what does being vulnerable but being dependded on others but she gets stronger with a help of a male protagonist are not the qualities of a Mary Sue. Xanatos? Sorry.
After all, Garnet didn't really struggle all her self and found herself. Garnet=Mary Sue.
Mary Sue is a dull character.Dull character does not make one a Mary Sue.
P.S. ( I see you are attacking my comments since I register on the board. Your points aren't coming nowhere.)
Rowan, you're right about me overlooking that, but I really meant that in reference to her being alive as a playable character.
Once she enters the Temple of the Ancients, she discovers what she must do to save the world, and really has a true purpose. At that point, her life finally makes sense, but to only her. It's kinda strange that she just leaves the party.
Other than that, and everything leading up to that, she was just vanilla. She was super nice and super kind and adopted, but not really mysterious until you start to find out about her history when you're around Icicle Inn and through her death scene.
BUT, as a playable character, she was kinda meh. Great Gospel is an awesome limit break, but you have to do a ridiculous amount of grinding to get to see it, which is really pointless, because the game isn't much fun when you're at level 65 on disc 1.
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
I think you don't know what a Mary Sue is. You say that Tifa acted jealous, yet is a Mary Sue? Mary Sues do not act jealous or portray any other sorts of negative character traits, so just by you saying that you've shown she can't be a Mary Sue. Also, being a Mary Sue has nothing to do with who is the main characters or who has an interesting back story or being dull. A Mary Sue is a character that is unrealistically perfect. Being popular, being important? Those things don't matter, but ironically Mary Sues do usually have those aspects to their stories as well, but it's not what makes them a Mary Sue. Their characteristics being all positive is what makes them a Mary Sue (or Gary Stu in male characters).
Garnet spent much of the plot feeling sorry for herself and relying on others to save her. Then she had a massive mental breakdown when the pressure got to much for her. These are not positive attributes of her character. Therefore she has negative character traits. Therefore she is not a Mary Sue.
"Everyone was so happy. 'Great job. You did it. You saved us... all.' There were too many smiles to count.
But now...When I look back... The people who should be here aren't.
The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here."
You still changing your arguments ....
[QUOTE=Sheechiibii;1353974]but yet....No I said they have no imperfections.
Questions to all users: Is Aerith a naive and immature? Yes.Rinoa is not a Mary Sue because she has negative character traits: she's very immature for starters, she can be selfish too and makes stupid mistakes because she doesn't think things through.
Yuna is not a Mary Sue because she has negative character traits: her naivete is pretty astounding, so is her blind obedience. She totally lacks the ability to think for herself for most of the game.
Which I said on my previous comment. She is too determined to change her mind because she is too naive and maybe stubborn . One of the reasons why she died immaturely, eventhough she has a point that she is the only one can stop Sephiroth.
Unlike Rinoa and Yuna, she didn't NEED A MALE to lean on or to help her struggles and concerns, which all Mary Sues are actually, A WEAK DEPENDENT CHARACTER. She accepts her responsibilities as the last Cetra after she learned about the lifestream and the Cetra race. She was hurt when Zack didn't answer her letters. She's tough because she escaping the Turks and knows the streets of Midgar. Also, she helping Cloud's past, a different storyline from FF8 an FFX when the protagonists,Squall and Tidus, help the female detertagonists, Rinoa and Yuna. Also, she ALMOST SUMMON THE WHITE MATERIA. If Sephiroth didn't killed her, then she could have save the planet earlier.
For that, I give props for her.
However...
I said "too" determination. It is being too close of being stubborn. That's not a positive trait. Aerith thinks there's nothing against of her way because her independent nature. It can be a positive trait, I agree such as she saves Tifa by dressing Cloud as a girl from the Don Corelone. Also it can be a negative trait such as the capture of the Turks to merging her Cetra powers and Red XII to her premature death. It isn't so annoying and unrealistic as Rinoa's and Yuna's because like you said Rinoa is selfish and stupid (you said she makes stupid mistakes) which makes you think why Squall fall in love in her in the first place , and Yuna can't think until a guy tell her to stop being submissive.Like determination, that is not an imperfection at all, that is a positive character trait.
Stop changing "your" definition. Mary Sue don't have imperfections. They are just perfect who lean on someone all the time.
Translation??People who try and point out their 'imperfections' can find nothing that are real imperfections.
...No .. I think it's you.You were the one who tried to say it was an imperfection when it is not. I think some people don't grasp what a Mary Sue is.
You can't have both. Mary Sue are imperfect or not imperfect. According your definition, ..well if you have a definition because it's so muddy based on your comment. Let me help you. Mary Sues are like Princess Peach. A perfect character who has no personality because she or he is perfect. A character who always get saved. A classic generic character. Based on my examples and explanations of about Aerith's character, she don't fit this trope.Mary Sues would have, imperfections that are not actually imperfect.
I can say thing about Riona an Yuna based on your logic. What is so interesting the relationship of Riona or Yuna or their past? FYI, character traits helps the story interesting or good character development. You just admit that Aerith is a good character. Why did you said that her story is "interesting" in the first place.It has nothing to do with who she grew close to or how interesting her story is, whether a character is a Mary Sue or not is entirely based upon their characteristics.
.It's a bad writing thing.
According to your logic...
Or females characters get saved by a man from their situation or from their bad negative traits finds in my opinion boring and weak. What do you think if Stella from Final Fantasy XV saves by Prince Notics from her situation or herself if the story portrays this way? I hate Final Fantasy XIII but thank god for Lighting. She has a bland personality , but she resolves her personal issues and negative traits on her own. That's not a Mary Sue. That's character.It's a character who is not written realistically because they have no flaws and all their characteristics are good, which nobody realistically is like.
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Sheechiibii, please stop trolling. In otherwords, stop changing your argument about the definition of Mary Sue.
You said that Mary Sue don't portray any negative characters , but earlier you said that Mary Sue does have imperfections? Make up your mind, seriously.
I gave my argument why Aerith isn't a Mary Sue unlike some characters.
As for Tifa, there is nothing negative about her. She just flirts with Cloud almost half of the game until Aerith dies. There is no inner struggle of the character other than she likes Cloud and she is the girl's next door. She is always so dependent...ugh.She was the black sheep of the story.
yeah but great gospel was so overpowered. There was no way we were taking that shit end-game hahaha
Apparently, not being initially designed to appear in the game and flirting with the main protagonist makes Tifa a Mary Sue even though neither have anything to do with what Mary Sue is and stands for. Brilliant
Which is why those very gals are as Sheechiibii already stated not a Mary Sue where's Aerith is because she does not have such flaws, irony in all of this is that you just classified Aerith as a Mary Sue and you're not even aware of it, and I find that hilarious.So does most of the entire FF females. They are inexperienced and depended on others until later on the protagonist help them to become stronger. Big difference between your favorite FF gal and my FF gal are that Aerith IS ALREADY INDEPENDENT AND EXPERIENCE. What is so different that Aerith is helping the protagonist Cloud than Zidane (male form of a Mary Sue in my opinion) is helping the deuteragonist , Garnet. That's makes her different than the rest of the FF females. Plus, she SAVED THE WORLD. Usually, a male protagonist saves the world in FF. She is the first FF female actually saves the world. (Celes and Terra don't count because they had a cast to defeat Kefka).
It took me a while to make sense out of this sentence (out of entire post to be honest), English is not my native language either, but that does not mean we should not try.And what does being vulnerable but being dependded on others but she gets stronger with a help of a male protagonist are not the qualities of a Mary Sue. Xanatos? Sorry
Anyways, means she has flaws that by definition rule her out as a Mary Sue character. Simple enough.
By what logic? By what definition? I found Golbez to be overall a dull character, that does not make him a Mary Sue. Do you know what Mary Sue is? Give me a definition if you don't mind.Mary Sue is a dull character.
I love how this guy just picks a random piece of plot line or even worse gameplay element (a gameplay element for **** sake) that have literally, like literally nothing to do with what Mary Sue is to counter ones point, he's not even slightly aware of it... it's highly amusing to read to be honest.
Last edited by Xanatos; 04-03-2014 at 03:36 PM.
Sig and Avy made by Unknown Entity
I have never heard any definition of Mary Sue that means a character who gets saved all the time. All the definitions I've ever heard of are variations of what I've been saying here: characters that are too perfect to be realistic. When I said this: "Mary Sues would have, imperfections that are not actually imperfect" I was talking about what you had tried to pass off as her imperfections. I should have used quotation marks around the word 'imperfections' and I'm sorry if you got confused about what I was trying to say. I thought I made it clear when I followed up by explaining how determination is not an imperfection like you said it was. In every single one of my posts I've explained my definition clearly: a character who is unrealistically perfect: has no negative characteristics.
You didn't say she was stubborn, you said she was determined. I can't think of a single instance where Aerith behaved either immaturely or stubbornly. I can't think of a single instance where she showed any negative characteristics at all. You have yet to give me any examples of her showing any negative character traits either.
"Everyone was so happy. 'Great job. You did it. You saved us... all.' There were too many smiles to count.
But now...When I look back... The people who should be here aren't.
The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here."
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