Drastic changes to final fantasy.

[Brother Wolf]

I remember several years ago watching FF10; It was like most RPG's; A turn based role playing game. I was appalled! How could anyone enjoy something so low action! And why would anyone wait to attack the other when they had a perfectly good chance to strike while the enemy was selecting an attack! several years down the road and I'm more tolerant of such random encounters and taking turns to bash each other's skulls. Needles to say I was thrilled when the Final fantasy genre mad the high action kingdom hearts series (except re:chain of memories, it sucked.) and the new spin on an old favorite:crisis core; as well as the the new game engine in FF12. My point is would you be excited or appalled at a more actiony change in final fantasy. what if Final fantasy and devil may cry had a baby that was FF14 I know i would be excited! What about you?

[Meier Link]

Heh apparently you haven't read about E3, FFXIV has already been anounced. It is a MMORPG (like XI and WoW).

Honestly if they could blend the two it would be amazing and a possible industry changing event. But as for now I will take my turn based and use it to bash the baddies into oblivion.

[RagnaToad]

The turn based system has been around for ages and it gives RPGs that strategic dimension that separates them from most other game genres. I can see that it would take some getting used to if you've never played an RPG before.

And as Meier pointed out, FF XIV has already been announced and will be an MMORPG, probably with the same engine as FF XI.

Kingdom Hearts was a nice change(apart from the kiddish, naive, innocent tone and the larger-than-life-but-really-not-making-any-sense-like-wtf-is-kingdom-hearts-anyway story) but a little too easy. And Crisis Core was on my buy-next list about a year ago. FF XII looks like it handles the new system very well. The fact that you still have the Wait option and an ATB bar are neat. FF XIII just doesn't look like an RPG anymore. I don't think I'd buy it if I had a PS3.

And if you think FF X was "weird" because of the turn-based system, try playing VII, VIII or IX. The battles are epic, but the level grinding takes way longer. But they're considered the best Final Fantasy's.

peace out

[Larick]

i hate what FF i becoming, one of the reasons is the change in battle system, if you want active fighting go play god of war or something, the turn based fighting adds strategy to the battle without and it makes it nesisary to level up because you cant always beat the enemy by gitting lucky, i espesualy liked FFX's system because it givesyou time to play out your attack unlike most of the older ones where your scared the enemy will attack you soon so you just press attack over and over again

in closing the turn based system is what makes FF FF and if you replace that with real time battle its just another main stream game like racing shooting and sports games

[shinra_32]

I have always liked the turn based system. I guess that's why I tend to stick with the Final Fantasy games. I kinda like being able to eat a three course meal and play at the same time. Then again maybe I'm just lazy.

The battle system in XII grew on me. It was different form the usual FF system. I still prefer walking around and randomly getting attacked.

[Xanatos]

Turn based system is one of the reasons why I play FF games. It´s like a trademark of the FF games and I wouldn't like it differently .I don't say that I don't like real time battle but I feel somehow it don't fit to FF games.

[Furore]

All hail the NES and SNES era.
Screw all of this new fangled nonsense.

Nowadays if I want some good old fashioned turn based gaming I have to look to Mistwalker who coincidentally have half the people who worked on the old skool FFs (and Chrono Trigger) I loved to pieces. That said, if FFXIII is the slightest bit different to FFXII I'm sure I'll like it a whole lot better. FFXII to me was a very low point in the series...

[Zardoch]

Honestly, action-RPGs should've been made long before FF decided to finally bring the genre somewhat back. I mean really, some of the greatest SNES RPGs were action-RPG games (Star Ocean, Secret of Mana, Tales of Phantasia), so why Square took a backseat to the genre with FF7-10 is a bit strange. At the same time, there are more action-RPGs today that aren't really that great. With FF7 DC trying to insert FPS action and failing, among others, Square is rather unbalanced at this point. Even with C.Core, which I have yet to play, the systems have yet to find a good level. Even KH2, while somewhat fun, only rehashed KH1, added a whole new level of emo-ness, and was too damn easy. Not only that, but the worlds ended up being nothing more than repetitive simulations of the same stories over and over. In all honesty, I'm afraid square has lost its 'touch' and we should be watching Mistwalker more closely.

As for a game where DMC and FF are combined, that would be a bad combination. It wouldn't honestly work and I would much rather play a game that doesn't force me to button mash until my fingers cramp up. Also, didn't Capcom already somewhat try this with Chaos Legion?

Anyway, I think Square or really any other company should put together a first-person-view action-RPG game using the Wii's abilities. Sort of like star wars fans wanting their lightsaber action, it could be interesting to see an RPG under the same idea. Hell, I'd love to see a onimusha fighting game with the same FPV.

On another subject, screw FF14, everyone here should be looking forward to the release of "White Knight Chronicles", which should be released in the US within the first few months of next year. It's an FF12-ish game with 100 hours of gameplay.

[Xanatos]

All hail the NES and SNES era.
Screw all of this new fangled nonsense.

Nowadays if I want some good old fashioned turn based gaming I have to look to Mistwalker who coincidentally have half the people who worked on the old skool FFs (and Chrono Trigger) I loved to pieces. That said, if FFXIII is the slightest bit different to FFXII I'm sure I'll like it a whole lot better. FFXII to me was a very low point in the series...

I couldn't agree with you more.NES and SNES era - those were the times.

[Sean]

If you dislike turned based action, then I have a suggestion for you:

Find another genre of gaming. The "new school" of both gamers and developers don't even know how to make a good RPG anymore. The direction the Final Fantasy series went with XII was disturbing, and I'm not exactly pumped for XIII. In fact, I haven't even played a Square-Enix title I've enjoyed since Kingdom Hearts, which I only halfass liked.

Turn based, strategic, and random encounters in a game with a driven storyline, character and plot developement, equipment and statistical upgrades and character levels is what a good console RPG SHOULD be.

Mistwalker, at least, hasn't forgotten this.

Edit: After the fact I realize that I have enjoyed a number of action adventure styled RPGs, Secret of Mana being one of them, however the Final Fantasy series should have, in my opinion, stayed the same style it was throughout games 1-10.

Edit again: I just came to the conclusion that I feel as if I'm in an aging group of gamers that's soon to be snuffed while developers instead focus on creating games to appease the masses of 14-18 year olds.

*sigh* Yay for Halo kiddies ruining my games.

[Larick]

Edit again: I just came to the conclusion that I feel as if I'm in an aging group of gamers that's soon to be snuffed while developers instead focus on creating games to appease the masses of 14-18 year olds.

*sigh* Yay for Halo kiddies ruining my games.

i have to disagree with you its not the 14-18 year olds that they are trying to appese because i am 17 and i find what they did to FF is outragous, i think a better way to classafy it would be they are trying to appese main stream gamers (racing/shooting/sports/action) because if you notice RPGs are put into the nerd catagory (which is not as big s teh mainstream...atleast outside of Japan) so what the game developers are trying to do is switch to the mainsream gamers in hopes of maing more money, onece again greed has ruined everything

[loaf]

You know you can turn the Gambit system off in FFXII and play the game like it's Turn Based. IMO saying Turn Based is what makes Final Fantasy a Final Fantasy is a pretty poor thing to say. You want to know what makes a Final Fantasy a Final Fantasy, Square-Enix/Soft whatever. The stories that they created is what makes the games what they are. If you want a game for it's battle system then go play a game with a unique battle system to it and besides, there are other Turn Based games out there. I liked FFXII, it became one of my Top 5 favorite titles in the series, the game is was pretty epic. Random encounters and all that jazz what Sean said doesn't make a good RPG, that is just a style of an RPG. Even though some people might not agree, a Zelda game is somewhat labeled as an RPG since well, you PLAY the ROLE of a character in a GAME hense the name RPG. Since RPG has now been labeled as a game that requires you to level, and what turn based? No that isn't true. Yea I agree honestly SNES and NES era was great, those stories were classic and FFXII did have some missing parts in it's stories that most of the older titles had in it, but that wasn't enough reason for me to dislike it.

[SilkAngel]

I prefer the old school FF, but something that has changed drastically are the graphics. From IX to X...it was amazing XD

[ZantetsukeN]

Screw the new stuff, turn-based is king!

Seriously, I would take the older FFs over anything anyday. I don't mind Kingdom Hearts and FFXII, but that's as far as I'll go in terms of more real time gameplay. If you want real time gameplay with little or no strategy, go play something else. No use moaning about it.

[AbysalDarkness]

the turned base is want i started playig and loved i well really i still like the turn based grid no rush for lazy people like me^^ and i mean 12 was REALLY diff for me but i got used to it but i still perfer the old school turn base

[Alpha]

I reckon there's just a huge stigma against games which consist of running around with a sprite, and a screen going all swirly, and then a battle. After said battle, you return as though nothing has happened. Don't get me wrong, the NES/SNES and PS1 FF eras were awesome, but that just does not fly anymore.

Having a platform-esque environment with real-time encounters is the new direction. I feel it was well pulled off in FFXII, but I also acknowledge that SE is risking a lot in pursuning this direction.

Why fix what ain't broke? To me it seems as though SE is trying to modernise the series. Change always destroys what existed before, so SE should be careful in not destroying the formula that has served legions of fans for literally decades. If FFXIII moves too far away from the tried and true, it could be dangerous. I'm still going to buy it, and I'm still going to enjoy it, but SE, you've got a good model: it doesn't need to be changed to be kept modern, just renovated a little. XII is good in that it doesn't move too far away from the old, while moving in the direction of most of today's RPGs.

Lets all just pray that FFXIII touches a little bit more to earth; keeping dedicated fans, while at the same time creating new interest. Hey, that would help TFF as well.

[coombsy1989]

I think I'm probably the only person here that likes both turn based and more the more active system used in FFXII. For me it isn't necessarily the battle system or character skill development system that makes Final Fantasy as after all other games have used the same or similar systems. What makes Final Fantasy for me are the stories, plots and characters. Very very few franchises have got the strength in their writing that 10, 15 or even 20 years later people are still playing, enjoying and getting emotional over the original games.

For me so long as the story hangs together and the system works, I'm willing to let Square-Enix take chances.

[Zargabaath]

I'm also one of the few who can adapt and is not restricted to one type of battle system. This so called lack of strategy in a more active system boggles me. In my experience of Final Fantasy there wasn't much strategy in respect to the turn-based games, it was mainly press "confirm" to attack.



This active/action battle system aimed at FFXII, a little towards FFXIII, is a misinterpretation of the battle system. The ADB system is still turn based, the clear difference from ADB to ATB is the ability for the characters move freely in battle and no screen transition to battles. This was done a little bit in FFX-2 since they would move around in battle. FFXII is not an action RPG; definitely more active. An action game is like God of War but FFXII is very far from being God of War and so is FFXIII. Many fans of Final Fantasy have the wrong idea about the series. Final Fantasy is not turn based only; if the series started off similiar to the Tales of, Star Ocean, or FFXII would turn-based games be "not Final Fantasy". Final Fantasy is about change, new innovation, a different experience game to game. If Final Fantasy was as stagnant as the select fans wanted, Final Fantasy would have not been what it is today.

If fans want to be all strung up about the "changes" to the series then we must also complain about the games with ATB as well, since the ORIGINAL game was turn based; that makes FF, FF II, FF III, and FF X the only true Final Fantasies. There is more we can do the heroes in Final Fantasy had no names, so every Final Fantasy after that are not Final Fantasies. All 3-D Final Fantasies are not "real Final Fantasies" and if that were true than Final Fantasy would definitely not be as famous. Remember all you 2-D loving, FFVI loving, FFVII hating , Nomura hating fans - it was FINAL FANTASY VII that made the series popular, that brought the most success to Square; before that Final Fantasy was just as popular if not less than Dragon Quest. Dragon Quest was only popular in Japan however world sales figures matched up for Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. The original Final Fantasy had character classes that could not be changed or expanded on; all games except FF IX are not real Final Fantasies. The original Final Fantasy with strict character class system had the player choose what classes you wanted throughout your journey so all games afterwards are not "Final Fantasy".

Taking a look at that paragraph, I agree, Final Fantasy would have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better off without change . Those with their underwear all riled up, should re-evaluate what they have as what the Final Fantasy series encompasses. Just remember too, that it is Final Fantasy IX that Hironobu Sakuguchi says is what Final Fantasy should be, not Final Fantasy VI or VII, but that is aimed more too the VI fans since a good portion are the worst offenders and VII fans being close behind with a good portion of them as well.


As for a Final Fantasy and Devil May Cry hybrid I think the closest thing will be Final Fantasy Versus XIII.

[Psiko]

Yay for everyone getting defensive and taking things to the extremes.

That being said, I've not enjoyed a Final Fantasy numbered after IX (except the MMO FFXI, which falls into a category of its own) and that is my personal preference. I played hours into X and could not enjoy it. I played about two hours into XII and haven't touched it since. It isn't that I don't like new or change. I love quite a varied list of games. Legend of Zelda and Secret of Mana are two fantastic action-oriented games (and the others within those series) that I would place near the top of my list of great games.

Each game evolves certain aspects in some ways. The "Limit Break" system was terrible in VI, but it was there. The pressure of making games is that you'll never successfully cater to 100% of the gaming population. I'll be damned if Rock Band/Guitar Hero doesn't come as close as you can get, though.

I know people who love X, and who enjoyed XII. I know people who hated I, IV, and VI. I know old skool gamers who love VII more than the originals, and new skool gamers who adored the older games once they played them.

To each their own. If I want a good turn-based RPG I'll pop in an original Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy. If I want action-based I'll turn to Seiken Densetsu or Star Ocean. No matter what, I can find games out there I can enjoy. I bet if you spend less time complaining, you can too.

[SOLDIER #819]

I haven't played a JRPG in a long, long time. Or really any RPG for that matter. Regardless of the type of battle system you are going to be grinding, and grinding, and GRINDING for hours on end simply by going from Point A to Point B. The RPG genre has changed little since its conception. Sometimes it's refreshing, but for the most part I'm only becoming more and more confounded by the idea that someone could jump from grindfest to grindfest like it's the funnest thing in the world.

Final Fantasy changing battle systems would be fine. Many of them possess some form of depth, but toward the end of the game that tends to be forgotten. You're more likely to use the same sort of attack over and over with the occasional heal or limit break. What's funny is that the grinding that goes hand-in-hand with these sorts of game is what destroys the necessity for any sort of strategizing.

So there is always room for improvement. But FFXII, to me, was a huge miss. It felt like I was playing Final Fantasy XI without friends. I just can't see the appeal in it. A change to the system doesn't have to be for the worse, however. FFX-2 was pretty interesting... I just wish I had finished it. I think I'll give FFXIII a shot too, since it's out there. In the meantime... there are plenty of other games to play. Too many...