Do you think videogames will ever be as good as in the 80's and 90's

[Rowan]

What I love about ff8 is that it gives you the option to become powerful but you have to pass some prerequisites. The first is that you need to know how to achieve this, the second is that you have to put in the effort and vast amount of time necessary in order for you to accomplish it. These 2 are justification enough for me that the battle system isn't 'broken' as much as how much effort is required in order to achieve the results. The same principle applies for any rpg game with character progression elements. If you put in the time, you reap the rewards. Not as many games have such options anymore, at least battle systems that are as intuitive as some past games I've played. I'm sure there are some great modern games that have had good battle systems (disgaea is a perfect example of putting in effort to reap insane reward) but also in disgaea, even of you manage to do damage in the BILLIONS, there are still enemies and stages that will challenge you, completely optional, obviously.

[Xanatos]

What I love about ff8 is that it gives you the option to become powerful but you have to pass some prerequisites. The first is that you need to know how to achieve this, the second is that you have to put in the effort and vast amount of time necessary in order for you to accomplish it. These 2 are justification enough for me that the battle system isn't 'broken' as much as how much effort is required in order to achieve the results. The same principle applies for any rpg game with character progression elements. If you put in the time, you reap the rewards. Not as many games have such options anymore, at least battle systems that are as intuitive as some past games I've played. I'm sure there are some great modern games that have had good battle systems (disgaea is a perfect example of putting in effort to reap insane reward) but also in disgaea, even of you manage to do damage in the BILLIONS, there are still enemies and stages that will challenge you, completely optional, obviously.

You can easily become as powerful without leveling up, magic and right GF abilities is all you need, plus overpowered limit breaks, and since you don't level up neither do enemies, meaning you'll be better off on low levels which brings us to my initial point and your own beef with enemy scaling, FF VIII doesn't reward you for leveling up, it in fact encourages you not to, ergo enemy scaling in this game is pretty much bullshit. Junction system in itself is another thing entirely, and you know how much I love to mess with.

[Rowan]

My point was though that ff8 is a rare example of how enemy scaling can be overlooked due to intuitive character customization. I found myself playing card games for fun, next thing I know I've got 100 tornados on everyone's attack.

[Odin1199]

Yeah, FF8 is a very rare example of a good auto leveling game and shouldn't be used to justify autoleveling in general (Xanatos), as it's a very rare case under very unique circumstances.

[Xanatos]

Yeah, FF8 is a very rare example of a good auto leveling game and shouldn't be used to justify autoleveling in general (Xanatos), as it's a very rare case under very unique circumstances.

Wut? When did I use FF VIII to justify auto leveling in general, is that even possible, could you point at the exact part where I did that. We already established auto leveling ****ing sucks in Final Fantasy VIII, since you don't need to level up at all, and since you don't need level up neither do enemies, even Rowan acknowledged that, the only difference between FF VIII and other games with similar system is that you can become powerful through other means, or junction system if you will. Care to explain why auto leveling in Final Fantasy VIII is good, because it seems you are the only one who thinks that.

My God, what a kreten, it's like debating video games with Patrick the Star, although unlike you Patrick would probably back up his words in his own funny, stupid way.

[Martin]

I wish I could moderate because this is becoming openly hostile. Calm it down.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there's no need to be so snipey.

I happen to think auto levelling is useful so have a go at me too! Auto levelling in VIII is useful for the initial stat boosts for those not entirely accustomed to the junctioning system. When you combine that with the GF Stat Bonus abilities, you can have non-junctioned characters in battle that won't just fall over dead. OF COURSE it's not essential. But it's not necessarily a bad thing either.

[Xanatos]

I happen to think auto levelling is useful so have a go at me too! Auto levelling in VIII is useful for the initial stat boosts for those not entirely accustomed to the junctioning system. When you combine that with the GF Stat Bonus abilities, you can have non-junctioned characters in battle that won't just fall over dead. OF COURSE it's not essential. But it's not necessarily a bad thing either.

Those who are not entirely accustomed to the junctioning system will have hard time beating the game, even more so if they decide to level up their characters... this pretty much covers my first attempt at beating the game. Levels may prove to be useful for non-junctioned characters, though it's a lot more useful to simply switch equipped magic and GF's between characters when such need occurs (a rather simple thing to do).

[Martin]

For the most part you're right but the only way you GET stronger magics to draw is through increasing the average level of your party so the average level of the monsters increases. So you still HAVE to level.

[Xanatos]

There are numerous ways to obtain stronger magics, most noticeably through cards and draw points, even if you decide to draw magic only out of enemies your average level needs to be lvl 30-35 for most enemies (including high tier monsters) to be stocked with strongest magic they can wield.

[Rowan]

Xanatos is right. The fundamental way to become stronger is to junction stronger magics obtained through draw points or card modding. Drawing stron magic from strong enemies leaves you the same way as you were drawing weak magic from weak enemies. There's no real stronghold over your enemies.

Also, there's a reason why bosses don't give exp. because exp is the enemy in ff8, it's not meant to be played traditionally.

[Odin1199]

I'm kind of curious as to why Japanese companies have to use anime style more, because they don't have powerful enough studios to compete with the big dogs. Why not? Take a Ukrainian company that made Stalker series for example: it was poor, it was only one in the country and yet it made 3 FPS games with awesome graphics and soon will have 2 Metro games made that used it's engine by another Ukrainian company. Why can't the Japanese do the same?

[Martin]

Xanatos is right. The fundamental way to become stronger is to junction stronger magics obtained through draw points or card modding. Drawing stron magic from strong enemies leaves you the same way as you were drawing weak magic from weak enemies. There's no real stronghold over your enemies.

Also, there's a reason why bosses don't give exp. because exp is the enemy in ff8, it's not meant to be played traditionally.

I'd say we're both right actually. It's not fundamental to refine your cards or items as this is an option obtained through GF abilities, which require AP from fighting. It's certainly the most efficient option, but that wasn't the issue. You can't obtain some of the higher level items to refine if you don't become strong enough to kill the monsters that hold them. There's areas of the game that aren't subject to the average level of the party - so you have to be at least able to defeat those monsters to progress. Levelling is not really as redundant as made out.

[Rowan]

I can destroy all ultimecias forms in one hit at level 12.

I think that says it all.

Edit: there is also the gf tonberry that has skills called LVLUP AND LVL DOWN. The primary purpose of those skills is to level up enemies during battles in order to steal the rare items that the higher level enemies carry, without having to be a high level yourself. And then being able to lower their level to finish them off for minimal exp if you wish. This only further proves that the game would give you options to opt out of exp and still be able to get rare items.

[ziroth]

My personal opinion is that I hope we never fall back into those years, the years when barely anyone played as much games as this age does. I wish for the same experience and feeling... But I know well enough its not coming back. I look to the future and hope for better games to come out