FF XIII story and ending wrapup **MAJOR SPOILERS!!**

[Iconoclast012]

Hey guys, I guess I'm a little late on beating the game considering I've had it since launch day...then again I did put 96 hours into it and took my time to make sure I saw everything and found everything. I'm sort of a completionist when it comes to games like this.

Anyway, I just finished the game last night and obviously the game was great. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have invested over 90 hours into it. However, I can't help but notice that a lot of things in the story were either just not properly explained, not fully explained, not explained at all or maybe it's because the story has so many details and twists that it can be overwhelming. I did the best I could to follow everything that was going on....even read the datalog after each event to make sure I stayed on the right track so everything would come together....but a lot of things just didn't..

Now, some of my questions may seem silly to someone who totally understands the story, or maybe I missed some things along the way, but bare with me because every one of my questions is a serious one...and yes I don't know the answers.

So, here goes....

1) Are Barthandelus and Ophran two seperate Fal'cie or are they one in the same?

2) Is Barthandelus the only Fal'cie who wanted to destroy Cocoon in order to bring back "the maker" or was it all of them? Is Barthandelus the "traitor" fal'cie or is orphan the traitor?

3) If Barthandelus wants Cocoon destroyed and Orphan wants to die, why do they do their best to try and kill you throughout the game? If they want to die, why don't they just tell you they want to die and get it over with already? Why do they put you through so much trouble if they just want you to kill them. All of their mind games seem so unnecessary if all they want to do is to die....

4) Does killing Orphan destroy the other sanctum Fal'cie also? Such as Phoenix and Carbuncle? Phoenix plays the part of the Sun and Carbuncle controls the food supply. So...if they're gone too....wouldn't Cocoon still be doomed anyway?

5) Who is the Fal'cie Eden and what are it's intentions? I don't believe it is ever shown in the game. It's mentioned but I don't believe you ever see it.

6) Why does Fang try to kill Vanille before the last battle?

7) If the focus of becoming Ragnarok is to destroy Cocoon why does Ragnarok end up saving Cocoon? Why does Barthandelus/Orphan not know and anticipate this fact?

8) Why do Fang and Vanille BOTH become Ragnarok? I assumed only one L'cie could become Ragnarok.

9) What is the real difference between sanctum fal'cie and pulse fal'cie?

10) What sparked the war of transgression 500 years earlier?

11) If the majority of the human inhabitants of Pulse were turned into Cie'th during the war of transgression then how did so many humans end up making it to Cocoon?

12) Did Barthandelus build Cocoon or did all of the Fal'cie build cocoon?

13) Why were the human inhabitants of Pulse trying to destroy Cocoon 500 years earlier?

14) Were there humans on Cocoon 500 years earlier or did they all live on Pulse?

15) How long has Cocoon been floating in the sky above Pulse and what was the main purpose of building it? To harbor humans for hundreds of years just so they could all be slaughtered? Why would the Fal'cie go to so much trouble building something so massive if they were just going to destroy it? Why didn't they just destroy the original Pulse inhabitants instead to bring back their maker? The fal'cie motives don't really make a lot of sense....

(16 Why can't the Fal'cie carry out their own actions? Why do they need L'cie slaves to do their work for them? If they are half-gods they should be able to do anything they want, right? What's stopping them?

17) If Orphan just wants to die, then why can't it just kill itself or ask for the aid of another fal'cie? Why do they need humans to do their work for them?

18) Why are the events of the war of transgression never fully explained?

19) Why did Fang and Vanille fail their focus 500 years earlier? And, if they failed it, why did they enter crystal stasis instead of being turned into Cie'th?

20) When Fang and Vanille become Ragnarok during the ending and save cocoon by wrapping it in crystal, I assume this means they completed their previously failed focus from 500 years earlier? I thought their focus was to destroy it, not prevent it from falling?

21) When Fang and Vanille enter crystal stasis AGAIN after becoming Ragnarok in the ending cutscene and stopping Cocoon from crashing into the ground, doesn't that only mean they will wake up from Stasis in another few-hundred years and it will just fall anyway?

22) This "maker" character is never explained much at all. Why did he create fal'cie? How long have the fal'cie been around? Have they been around as long as the human inhabitants of Pulse or are they "foreign invaders" or aliens so-to-speak?

23) For being half-gods the fal'cie seem to be constrained by A LOT of rules....why is this?

24) Is your party really turned into Cie'th before the final battle or is that just more illusionary tricks from barthandelus?

25) After Ragnarok wraps Cocoon in a protective crystal barrier and stops it from falling during the ending cutscene, all of your party members appear to be in crystal stasis...then magically they're not all of a sudden...what gives?

As much as I liked this game and the storyline, I felt that a lot of it was either just poorly explained or not fully explained. I managed to follow it pretty well throughout the game, but after the final credits I just had a "shrug your shoulders" feeling and tons of unanswered questions. I felt like the game just didn't tie up a ton of loose ends or fully explain itself. I could probably ask 25 more questions... Maybe I'm just an idiot, but this is one of the only storylines I've followed in my entire life that I've had trouble putting together in the end.... And I've read some pretty complicated storylines.

[Xithor]

Wow that is quite a big dose of questions that were left unanswered for you. That was one down side of FF XIII that a lot of things still needed to be explained even after getting very much through the majority of the game. Here is what I can offer:

3) If Barthandelus wants Cocoon destroyed and Orphan wants to die, why do they do their best to try and kill you throughout the game? If they want to die, why don't they just tell you they want to die and get it over with already? Why do they put you through so much trouble if they just want you to kill them. All of their mind games seem so unnecessary if all they want to do is to die....

Yes Barthandelus wants to destroy Cocoon and bring about Orphan so that they can die and bring about a so called Apocalypse but they can't just let the party kill them. They were playing mind games and tricking the group the entire time to make them believe that their true focus was to destroy Ragnarok, not to destroy Orphan. They need the l'Cie to become Ragnarok and then destroy Orphan which would bring about the destruction of Cocoon.

16 Why can't the Fal'cie carry out their own actions? Why do they need L'cie slaves to do their work for them? If they are half-gods they should be able to do anything they want, right? What's stopping them?

Orphan said it himself/herself that men have unlimited potential. "Men dream, aspire, and through indomitable force of will alone achieve the impossible." So by using l'Cie they are taking advantage of that unlimited potential that all humans have.

20) When Fang and Vanille become Ragnarok during the ending and save cocoon by wrapping it in crystal, I assume this means they completed their previously failed focus from 500 years earlier? I thought their focus was to destroy it, not prevent it from falling?

Their focus was to become Ragnarok and destroy Orphan, but as Lightning said in the moments before the last fight "You gave up on life before you were even born. Sat poisoning Cocoon from the inside waiting for someone to come and destroy you. All you care about it death's release, so take it and leave the rest of us alone. We dont think like that. When we think there is no hope left, we keep looking until we find some. Maybe Cocoon is past saving, but we'll protect it or die trying. We live to make the impossible possible! That is our focus!"

So pretty much our new focus is to save Cocoon, not destroy it.

21) When Fang and Vanille enter crystal stasis AGAIN after becoming Ragnarok in the ending cutscene and stopping Cocoon from crashing into the ground, doesn't that only mean they will wake up from Stasis in another few-hundred years and it will just fall anyway?

No, they failed their focuses last time so they were made into crystals as punishment in a sense because the fal'Cie knew that Fang and Vanille were needed to become Ragnarok but it wasn't they right time for them. Now when they became crystals it's because they fulfilled their focus, they won't be coming out of that crystalysis.

24) Is your party really turned into Cie'th before the final battle or is that just more illusionary tricks from barthandelus?

They are for a moment but it turned out just to be more fal'Cie smoke and mirrors like Sazh said. They were in the darkness of the Cie'th but were pulled out of it.

25) After Ragnarok wraps Cocoon in a protective crystal barrier and stops it from falling during the ending cutscene, all of your party members appear to be in crystal stasis...then magically they're not all of a sudden...what gives?

Fang and Vanille talking to the party after the came out of crystal state explained to them that it was the last thing that they could do. They saved Cocoon from being destroyed and were giving the 4 party members as well as Serah and Dajh a chance to make a difference in the new age of Cocoon by drawing them out of their crystal state.

I'll try to answer more later, that typing was a lot lol

[Iconoclast012]

LoL...yes it is a lot, I know. Sorry for the wall of questions, but I played this game over a four month period of time since release so I guess some of the earlier parts of the game faded from memory and the story ended up a little confusing for me in the end.

Your answers definitely cleared some things up but this game has an EXTREMELY OVERWHELMING storyline. There are so many details and twists that it could be confusing for almost anyone.

The datalog does a great job of explaining a lot of it that the dialogue fails to do but a good majority of the story details are in the final moments of the game....and the datalog doesn't record any of that..

That's how I followed most of the story is through reading the datalog. I have an easier time understanding something when I can read it rather then hear it....just me I guess.

Maybe some parts of this game just weren't explained well on purpose because Square wants us to make up our own minds about it? A lot of writers do that...cliffhanger endings and strange twists and such. I'm sure all of us here have seen a movie or two, or even read a book with a "shrug your shoulders" ending...

[Xithor]

The datalog does a great job of explaining a lot of it that the dialogue fails to do but a good majority of the story details are in the final moments of the game....and the datalog doesn't record any of that.. \

If I had to put one of my main objections to how Final Fantasy XIII was laid out that would be it exactly in your own words. There is just so much information that is left out of the dialogue. You have to constantly go to the datalog to read new things that appear just to understand the story and I felt like why should I read that if I'm watching the story unfold right in front of me. Shouldn't seeing it help me to understand why the characters are doing what they are doing and what is restricting their progress.

It wasn't until like Chapter 7 that I actually understood what a fal'Cie even was, I had no idea what they were. I also had a tough time explaining to friends that asked me how the game was going what exactly a l'Cie was until I got into the later chapters of the game and almost everything began to get revealed. The story just took too long to get going and that might scare new people away from it but hopefully the stunning visuals will keep them interested. I'll formulating more answers to your questions just have to get them right in my mind and make sure I'm telling you the correct information.

[Iconoclast012]

I still like my text boxes in rpg's tbh...

I prefer to read a story. When it's in voice acting, especially when it's anime style, it just doesn't work as well as it does in text.. Just my opinion /shrug

[Zargabaath]

You have a lot of questions there. I too felt that there were things needing more explanation in the game. But I'll answer to the best of my knowledge the questions you asked.

1) Are Barthandelus and Ophran two seperate Fal'cie or are they one in the same?

Barthandelus and Orphan are two seperate Fal'Cie. Orphan is the power source to all of Cocoon; without Orphan Cocoon would fall. Barthandelus was the Lord Sovereign of the Cocoon Fal'Cie. It was Barthandelus who led the Fal'Cie in their plot to destroy Cocoon.

2) Is Barthandelus the only Fal'cie who wanted to destroy Cocoon in order to bring back "the maker" or was it all of them? Is Barthandelus the "traitor" fal'cie or is orphan the traitor?

From what we know, it appears all Cocoon Fal'Cie wanted Cocoon destroyed. The Pulse Fal'Cie were searching for their Maker but their reason for wanting to destroy Cocoon was that Cocoon was an abomination. Once the party reaches Gran Pulse it could be said that the Pulse Fal'Cie no longer want to destroy Cocoon - or as much - since there are no more humans left on Gran Pulse.

3) If Barthandelus wants Cocoon destroyed and Orphan wants to die, why do they do their best to try and kill you throughout the game? If they want to die, why don't they just tell you they want to die and get it over with already? Why do they put you through so much trouble if they just want you to kill them. All of their mind games seem so unnecessary if all they want to do is to die....

Barthandelus puts them through so much so that they may "break" and become Ragnarok in their grief/sorrow; that way they would - as Ragnarok - destroy Orphan and fulfill his goal. Barthandelus delivers them to the Fifth Ark so that they may become stronger to accomplish their goal, though that raises a question of why would they need to become stronger if all they had to due was become Ragnarok. Does the power of Ragnarok increase with the power of the L'Cie? When a L'Cie transforms into Ragnarok their power increases but is the power of Ragnarok stagnic or diverse?

The reason why Barthandelus and Orphan tries to kill the party is the party says that they don't want to complete their focus, so Barthandelus and Orphan start a fight with them so the party would have to choose their deaths or Barthandelus' and Orphan's death.

As a side though I would like to know what the party was thinking they would do after they defeated Orphan, before they fought the true form of Orphan (second-form). I would like to know because I am curious as to what they had planned to save Cocoon after they defeated the power source to Cocoon, fulfilling Barthandelus' and the other Cocoon Fal'Cie's goal. Makes it seem all the more a Deus ex.

4) Does killing Orphan destroy the other sanctum Fal'cie also? Such as Phoenix and Carbuncle? Phoenix plays the part of the Sun and Carbuncle controls the food supply. So...if they're gone too....wouldn't Cocoon still be doomed anyway?

I had a similiar question because the ending, to me, created questions that the game did not answer. From what I can gather, with Orphan's death, the Eden and the other Cocoon Fal'Cie would no longer have the power to maintain Cocoon. By themselves the Cocoon Fal'Cie did not have the power to exist and support Cocoon in their own way.

The citizens of Cocoon evacuated and are most likely not living in Cocoon anymore; they no longer are depending on the Cocoon Fal'Cie since they will be living on Gran Pulse - though they are inadequately prepared for such a task.

5) Who is the Fal'cie Eden and what are it's intentions? I don't believe it is ever shown in the game. It's mentioned but I don't believe you ever see it.

The Fal'Cie Eden are the three figures in Orphan's Cradle that guide the party to Orphan. Eden's intentions were just the same as all the other Cocoon Fal'Cie - the destruction of Cocoon. Eden was the Fal'Cie that directed the other Fal'Cie and was the only Fal'Cie to communicate with the humans in important decisions. Without Eden, Cocoon could not operate thus would fall to Gran Pulse and be destroyed.

6) Why does Fang try to kill Vanille before the last battle?

I believe at that time the other party members appeared to have turn into Cie'th so all who are left are: Fang and Vanille. Fang once again could not successfully become Ragnarok - a broken L'Cie - and it may have been hinted that Vanille could have become a "proper" Ragnarok and destroy Orphan/Barthandelus. Fang does not want Vanille to go through that so she tries to kill her to stop Orphan/Barthandelus' plan.

7) If the focus of becoming Ragnarok is to destroy Cocoon why does Ragnarok end up saving Cocoon? Why does Barthandelus/Orphan not know and anticipate this fact?

I too asked something very similiar this. The exact nature of Ragnarok does not go into detail which allows it to be such an easy Deus ex Machina. The game does not explain exactly what powers Ragnarok has. If the L'Cie who become Ragnarok loose control of themselves. I assume only humans, more so L'Cie, can become Ragnarok, but why only them? Where does Ragnarok come from? Really, the Ragnarok part of the ending was really just a Deus ex because Motomu Toriyama probably got ahead of himself and definitely did not fully think through all the details in his story. He had a great premise but his execution was poor as there are many things that need explaining. If an author creates an unique system of magic in his book but leaves many aspects of it in ambiguity then that would be criticized; Toriyama did the same to his world of Final Fantasy XIII - unfortunately. Barthandelus/Orphan probably didn't anticipate the fact that Ragnarok could save Cocoon because it probably wasn't thought of by Toriyama.

8) Why do Fang and Vanille BOTH become Ragnarok? I assumed only one L'cie could become Ragnarok.

Once again the nature of Ragnarok is left so blank before the ending that Toriyama could have it do whatever he wants. While the game doesn't say that only one L'Cie can become Ragnarok it also overlooks to say that more than one L'Cie could become Ragnarok. If Toriyama had gone into detail about the nature of Ragnarok then it would not be a probelm because we would know exaclty what Ragnarok is and can do; though if he got into Ragnarok Toriyama would have to leave his focus on the characters and have a bigger plot.

9) What is the real difference between sanctum fal'cie and pulse fal'cie?

Well Cocoon Fal'Cie want to destroy Cocoon to bring back their maker while Pulse Fal'Cie want to find their maker but they also carry out the goal that their maker set, by creating the perfect environment. Also, Pulse Fal'Cie were created by Gran Pulse while Cocoon Fal'Cie were the brood of Lindzei. Cocoon Fal'Cie are dependent on Orphan while Pulse Fal'Cie aren't.

10) What sparked the war of transgression 500 years earlier?

The Pulse Fal'Cie since the creation of Cocoon were driven to destroy Cocoon, so 500 years ago a Fal'Cie (possibly Anima though it is never explicity said that it was Anima) gave Fang and Vanille the focus to destroy Cocoon with the power of Ragnarok.

11) If the majority of the human inhabitants of Pulse were turned into Cie'th during the war of transgression then how did so many humans end up making it to Cocoon?

There were already people on Cocoon before the War of Transgression; most of the population on Pulse was wiped out from Fang and Vanille's attempt and those that were left eventually were wiped out because of the monsters of Pulse, the Fal'Cie giving them insane foci, and wars breaking out.

12) Did Barthandelus build Cocoon or did all of the Fal'cie build cocoon?

Lindzei, the fell demon (a divine entity herself) came up with the idea of Cocoon; as to what purpose it would serve if she had stayed we don't know. But Lindzei left, along with Gran Pulse, and Barthandelus carried out his goddess' creation and he was the one who lead construction of Cocoon.

13) Why were the human inhabitants of Pulse trying to destroy Cocoon 500 years earlier?

The Pulse Fal'Cie saw Cocoon as a violation of Gran Pulse since the Cocoon Fal'Cie took materials from Gran Pulse to create Cocoon which was seen as ghastly and unclean.

14) Were there humans on Cocoon 500 years earlier or did they all live on Pulse?

Yes there were humans on Cocoon 500 years earlier.

15) How long has Cocoon been floating in the sky above Pulse and what was the main purpose of building it? To harbor humans for hundreds of years just so they could all be slaughtered? Why would the Fal'cie go to so much trouble building something so massive if they were just going to destroy it? Why didn't they just destroy the original Pulse inhabitants instead to bring back their maker? The fal'cie motives don't really make a lot of sense....

As for exactly how long Cocoon has been floating in the sky I do not know. As I mentioned earlier I am unsure as to the purpose of Cocoon if Lindzei had not left since she was the one who designed Cocoon, but since she did leave Barthandelus and the other Cocoon Fal'Cie, like their Pulsian cousins, wanted their maker to return so they planned to destroy Cocoon to signal for her return. Perhaps, Lindzei planned to leave all along and wanted to destroy humans who inhabited Cocoon from the start, since she is seen as a demon; a demon would do something evil and that is an evil plot - more mystery.

(16 Why can't the Fal'cie carry out their own actions? Why do they need L'cie slaves to do their work for them? If they are half-gods they should be able to do anything they want, right? What's stopping them?

It is said by Barthandelus/Orphan that Fal'Cie are slaves to their destiny; they can not do anything besides what they are programmed to do. Which is why the make humans L'Cie because humans are free and have immense ammount of power that the Fal'Cie could never wield. Through giving out foci the Fal'Cie are able to control the power that the humans have to their [the Fal'Cie] own ends. It is their very nature of being Fal'Cie that stops them from doing anything they want.

17) If Orphan just wants to die, then why can't it just kill itself or ask for the aid of another fal'cie? Why do they need humans to do their work for them?

As I said above, a Fal'Cie can't kill itself because all it can do is its duty, whether that be to provide the food for Cocoon or sunlight. Though that does bring up a point if they could not kill themselves nor another Fal'Cie could destroy Orphan then how can they fight the party? This could be explained that the Fal'Cie can fight and kill humans/L'Cie but not other Fal'Cie as that is a part of their programming though it would be odd.

18) Why are the events of the war of transgression never fully explained?

Records on Cocoon's perspective are probably deeply hidden and Gran Pulse's view is nowhere to be found since there are no humans left. Though that is an explanation from what I find more probable - Toriyama overlooking a detail about his world once more.

19) Why did Fang and Vanille fail their focus 500 years earlier? And, if they failed it, why did they enter crystal stasis instead of being turned into Cie'th?

The Goddess Etro took pity on them, halted Fang in her attack on Cocoon and turned Fang and Vanille into crystals.

20) When Fang and Vanille become Ragnarok during the ending and save cocoon by wrapping it in crystal, I assume this means they completed their previously failed focus from 500 years earlier? I thought their focus was to destroy it, not prevent it from falling?

As you should know, when a newly made L'Cie gets their focus they are given a dream which is their only clue to what their focus may be. I don't know about Fang and Vanille's dream when they first became L'Cie, but I noticed that the dream sequence that Lightning, Snow, Sazh, and Hope receive (along with Vanille perhaps as a reminder) are bits and pieces of the ending. We see Ragnarok roaring, as what happened in the ending, and then we see many arms of Ragnarok sprouting form the bottom of Cocoon as what happened in the ending. So perhaps their focus was to save Cocoon the whole time, but that would raise the question of why was Barthandelus not aware of their true focus. If a person reads the datalog it says after the party defeats Anima they are transported to another dimension where an otherworldly entity awaits them - that entity I believe is not Anima and I believe is one of the gods that left, most likely Gran Pulse. Of course, as I've said before in other threads, then Barthandelus was fooled but Toriyama does not go into detail about this plot point.

21) When Fang and Vanille enter crystal stasis AGAIN after becoming Ragnarok in the ending cutscene and stopping Cocoon from crashing into the ground, doesn't that only mean they will wake up from Stasis in another few-hundred years and it will just fall anyway?

They will most likely never wake up again as they were given their well-earned rest and peace.

22) This "maker" character is never explained much at all. Why did he create fal'cie? How long have the fal'cie been around? Have they been around as long as the human inhabitants of Pulse or are they "foreign invaders" or aliens so-to-speak?

I'm not entirely sure but I believe the maker made the Fal'Cie instruct, guide, and/or help the humans. The Fal'Cie have been on the world for a bit longer than the humans if we take the Analect I into consideration - that the maker made the Fal'Cie first then the humans.

23) For being half-gods the fal'cie seem to be constrained by A LOT of rules....why is this?

It is just their nature as Fal'Cie. Just as humans can't actually fly without the help of some mechanical contraption, a Fal'Cie can't do certain things.

24) Is your party really turned into Cie'th before the final battle or is that just more illusionary tricks from barthandelus?

Sazh says that is is more Fal'Cie smoke and mirros, but they did say it was dark and heard a voice so they were sent somewhere. Perhaps they were turned to Cie'th and the Goddess restored them. They were sent somewhere by Barthandelus/Orphan so I would think they would need some outside help to return to the throne room.

25) After Ragnarok wraps Cocoon in a protective crystal barrier and stops it from falling during the ending cutscene, all of your party members appear to be in crystal stasis...then magically they're not all of a sudden...what gives?

It is not fully explained but it could be that the Fal'Cie no longer have control over humans, which opens more questions, thus they were freed though why it would take as long I don't know. Then the Goddess Etro could've freed them though there is no evidence that she would just a stab in the dark.

[Iconoclast012]

Why is Barthandelus the only Fal'cie who is able to take human form?

[Zargabaath]

Why is Barthandelus the only Fal'cie who is able to take human form?

Barthandelus is a Fal'Cie of manipulation and trickery, this allows him to create illusions to help him in his manipulation of anybody he wants to control. May make a person think why he brought Cid back when all he could've done is taken the form of Cid to get Rygdea and the Calvary all riled up.

[Iconoclast012]

Square...in all their infinite wisdom....had to have seen these plot holes when they were making the game. They've been doing amazing video game storylines for two decades now... You would think they would have noticed dozens of plot holes and unexplained subjects during production and done something about it.... If their main goal for this title was to create a story focused game (which it was obviously) you would think that would be even MORE incentive to make sure the plot fits together perfectly...what were they thinking?

[Xithor]

Square...in all their infinite wisdom....had to have seen these plot holes when they were making the game. They've been doing amazing video game storylines for two decades now... You would think they would have noticed dozens of plot holes and unexplained subjects during production and done something about it.... If their main goal for this title was to create a story focused game (which it was obviously) you would think that would be even MORE incentive to make sure the plot fits together perfectly...what were they thinking?

I think that they were hoping that the datalog was gonna be enough information to fill in the holes and answer all the questions that were not actually addressed during game play but that strictly wasn't the case. Maybe the production team was so focused on the visual aspect of the game, which did not fail to disappoint that they weren't as committed to the story. I liked the story, don't get me wrong, just could have used better execution I guess.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Huh.
I don't think they had enough description in their Mythos for most of the story to make sense. Who is Etro and the other demon gril thingy. After the Fal'cie complete what they are told to do, do they die? Or turn into something themselves? Damn sqeenix.
We know jsut about nothing about the mythos.
They might just be saving some of it for Versus, but that means...metalic summons... *cries*