I’m not really looking for an answer I just want to find out if I’m not alone in this way of thought. But after Final Fantasy 9, the whole game has just gone downhill completely.
I first played FF7 way back in the days and from then it turned me into a gamer. I then played up till 9 and the previous FF’s loving them all in their glory. I played FF10 and although quite enjoyable there was something very wrong. But now, I’m sorry, they have simply just begun to sucked.
FF12 was just horrible... I didn’t even bother finishing it because it just bored me. For some strange reason they went from having a game with a the most amazing narratives, imagination and playability into the same old shit any game developers can make. If you think FF12 has good imagination, think again. It just didn’t feel like a FF at all and I hope older FF players agree with me. I know there trying to keep up with today’s market but why take away things that made the game what it is and change it to fit newer players. What happened to looking after the older and loyal player’s! If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
I know people are going to say they don’t give a **** what this guy thinks but I just want to get some opinions from other FF fans. I’m not trying to start a rant.
p.s. Oh and I might be the only FF7 fan saying this but please don’t do a FF7 remake. It was a gaming work of art and it doesn’t need a graphic update at all. It would be like stencilling a Ipod on the Mona Lisa! ok maybe too far
Looking forward to responses.
rascalz
Last edited by rascalz; 11-29-2009 at 04:28 PM.
For me, after X I became less and less interested in the newer games, hence why I'm playing all of the older ones nowlike V and VI.
I played XII, which I thought was okay not horrible, but I wasn't as stoked to play that one as say IX and X, I just got a little bored with XII. Never got around to playing XI and I probably won't any time soon. X-2...it was kind of fun sometimes but overall that game was fail.
Waiting for XIII.
Last edited by GypsyElder; 11-30-2009 at 04:04 PM.
I've enjoyed all of the FF games that I've played. I have not found any of the quality or interest to be lacking when I played them. The only FF game I haven't played repeatedly was FFXII and that was because at that point I had purchased too many RPGs that I couldn't replay it immediately. But you also have to keep in mind that a RPG is enjoyable to me on varying merits. In general, FF RPGs are enjoyable for the story while other RPGs are enjoyable for their gameplay or quirkiness.
If anything I found FFIII and FFIV to be lacking. Though they are both on handhelds, the versions I own. So that sort of hurts them before they were even out the door. I have yet to finish either of them primarily because they are on handhelds. FFIV had an interesting story, though it wasn't strong enough for it to over power my disinterest in handhelds. Which is why I may end up replaying it on the PS1. I'll probably enjoy it more there. I haven't finished any of the FFs under FFVII yet.
I'll admit that FFVII had a pretty epic quality to that has not really been matched since. But all of the stories afterwards have been enjoyable for me to keep replaying them over and over again.
As for FFXII I enjoyed it for the different approach it took. If you look at it the world really was not coming to an end. You were just looking to stop an empire that threatened your country. That was about it. Which was nice, you stuck is a small part of the entire world and had a small adventure there. It was far more political at times and the main character was more an observer than the main character. But I could enjoy those differences. It was a different story telling experience, plus I loved the combat system. I couldn't get enough of it. I played the demo like 4 times because I loved the combat so much. When a game makes combat that enjoyable that I actually loved grinding or farming you know you have a winner. I'd go back and replay it in a heart beat if I wasn't trying to get through 50 other RPGs currently.
Curious? There's no limits but your own imagination.
Don't know how to roleplay, but want to learn? Visit Here!
2007 and 2009 Best Writer of TFF and 2009 Most Creative Co-Winner
I think that I did enjoy the PSone era of the FF games the most, but I don't think that the newer ones "suck balls". I happen to enjoy FF XII very much. I know that there is a lot of criticism over the changes made in that game, but I think it was pretty refreshing myself. At least Square-Enix is trying something different so they aren't doing the same-old, same-old.
I am also eagerly awaiting FF XIII, although I think I'm a little more excited for Versus XIII. I'm trying to steer clear of finding out too much information about the game before it gets released to the States.
I sort of get what you're saying, but I think that it's important for developers to appeal to the newer audiences sometimes. If you keep appealing to the same demographic who pretty much want the same thing, how can there be any innovation?Posted by rascalz
What happened to looking after the older and loyal player’s! If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
Click at your own risk.:
*prepares to get flamed*
VII
Allow me to explain myself here. In my mind the Final Fantasy games can be grouped into three categories (not going to try to include XI because most people skip it anyway)
The Bad: II, X, X-2, XII
The Decent: Mystic Quest, V, VII, VIII
The Great Ones: I, III, IV, VI, IX, Tactics
I frown when I think of the Playstation era and beyond. Of course, by decent I don't mean that any of those ones are terrible games. There are many parts of all four of those that I truly cherished and enjoyed. Yet they lacked a certain...something that just didn't make me sing praise for the game. The Great Ones all define the best that an era had to offer. Square got it right with IX on the return to its roots. I understand you may disagree.
Don't begrudge me for my opinions.
And
if the word "graphics" is used as part of anyone's defense in a response to my post I will immediately STOP reading. Fair warning.
OLD SKOOL - A positive appellation referring to when things weren't flashy but empty of substance, were done by hard work, didn't pander to the lowest common denominator, and required real skill. Labour-saving devices, shortcuts that reduce quality and quitting before the task is done are not characteristics of "old skool."
In reference to computer games, refers to a game that had substantial playability without flashy graphics or eye candy. Old skool gamers appreciate difficult maneuvers, careful planning, and scorched earth policies.
In reference to role-playing games, old skool refers to games that tested players' wits, could kill off careless characters, and required dedication and inner strength to play. Old skool games didn't pander to the ideas that everyone is created equal, that all options are open to all races, that the markets were somehow free, and that a quasi-medieval society could have near 100% literacy.
See also classic.
Representing the Old Skool ways since 1984.
Graphics...hehe... ^^;
But seriously, visuals are certainly not an issue for me. I mean I'm still playing and enjoying PS2 RPGs while everyone is saying they're ugly now with HD. I love the sprite based PS2 RPGs that are still slowly coming out. And I plan to get around the other FF games I haven't finished, handhelds just end up tainting my experience significantly. I own all of the console versions of the games minus FFIII so that'll be chore to beat. Can't stand FFTA for two reasons, one a handheld and the law system.
Cheers for FFIX being one of your best games though. I love FFIX to death, it was also my first FF. But I do wish that they would make more true fantasy FF RPGs like that. I miss the days when fantasy was not unceremoniously merged with sci-fi. I don't really mind it all with FFVII, but I do love my fantasy and sci-fi divided neatly in two different corners.
Poor, poor FFXI getting left in the corner because its different. Don't worry I still care you about FFXI.
But you put X and X-2 in the same boat? ; ; X-2 brought back the job system from III/V/Tactics and X finally allowed you to change party members in battle. X was also far more strategic than any FF since FFT. I love active time battles, but you could plan out and arrange your party to deal with an unforeseen threat. You could judge if a move was going to waste too many of your slots putting you on the other side of a boss's attack. It has some good merits. I won't fight you on the story or characters since that comes down to a personal preference and that battle never ends. ^^; But gameplay wise FFX is a pretty solid game.
Curious? There's no limits but your own imagination.
Don't know how to roleplay, but want to learn? Visit Here!
2007 and 2009 Best Writer of TFF and 2009 Most Creative Co-Winner
First off: I don't want to offend anyone here. Just my two cents.
Why the heck does everyone dislike XII? Why?!
Even if it doesn't feel like a FF (many didn't, for me) it's still a good game. It has a decent story, many nice side-quests, battles, bosses, an antagonist who's just crazy, Cid... it has everything a FF needs.
For many the story isn't that great, but you should give it a try. I didn't get the story either when I first played the game. But after ~20 hours I finally got it and then it was great. Okay, too much politics for me, but even if you skip that part, it's still a good story. It's not just Empire VS Rebels. (Besides, if anyone thinks that it is... VI and VII had the same story. And VIII kinda, too.)
I may be hated know but... I didn't really like FF7. Yes, 7 - SEVEN - VII! This is no typing mistake. <.<"FF12 was just horrible... I didn’t even bother finishing it because it just bored me.
But you know, I played it to the end, because there still was a glimpse of hope in me that said that the game could get better. You can't just judge a game by the beginning. How far have you gotten? Did you even get the chance to understand the story? (No offense - I know you can't possibly get the whole story at the beginning. <<)
People, that's what I dislike about FF fans, really. I'm sorry, but you can't judge any FF if you haven't played it to the end. We should all know that FFs develop throughout the game. I even found FFVI quite boring in the beginning and after playing it it became my favorite.
Really sorry if it sounded offensive (I get the impression it did), but I can't stand any XII-bashing anymore...
9x-7i > 3(3x-7u)
This is how I feel as well. I don't really understand why people just feel the need to hate on this game. I also feel that way about people who hate on VII. I know people are entitled to thier opinions, but to outrightly BASH it is something that I feel is not really all that necessary...Posted by Freya
Really sorry if it sounded offensive (I get the impression it did), but I can't stand any XII-bashing anymore...
In XII's defense, I say that there was indeed changes made that allowed Square-Enix to try something to see if it works or not. For some it did, and for others it didn't.
I personally really REALLY liked how I could customize any of the playable characters to my liking. I could either have all my characters' licences unlock so they could do everything or I could focus thier abilities and create characters who specialized what I needed them to do (Black mage, White mage, Long range fighter, etc.). I think that kind of customization is wonderful! Think about it. Say you really REALLY liked a character, but thier abilities were not what you were accustomed to using or thier fighting style was a little less than desirable. You don't have that problem in XII, because you could make any character do anything that you wanted/needed them to.
Also I must touch on the story. Yes it's not as long, but I personally found it to be quite enjoyable. I thought that the political aspect was a nice touch. It wasn't JUST about someone/something out to destroy the world so there are these guys that you play as that are going to stop them/it. The politics of Vayne's actions made it seem a bit more real, which I suppose defeats the purpose of it being a fantasy game, but in a way it made it more appealing to see the events unfold in such a way that could really happen in real life.
One other thing that I think is pretty amazing is how when you wander around the world map, you see how the enemies are interacting with the environment. It's just a little something that I think should be done with many more games. Seeing your foes BEFORE you fight them adds a bit of tactical aspect to the game, imo. You see an enemy (NOT RANDOMLY ENCOUNTERED) and you choose the best course of action, whether you face them head on, study thier weaknesses so you can figure out your advantages, or if you decide to avoid them for whatever reason.
Well, there's my two cents about XII.
Last edited by Dodie16; 11-30-2009 at 09:42 AM. Reason: Edited the part about graphics out of the post.
Click at your own risk.:
No final fantasy game in the entire series sucked ballz the people who hate them suck ballz. And there is no reason for XII bashing the stroy of XII was amazing I did not enjoy the battle system because I am a turn based kind of guy but at least they tried something new. To sit here and say the series got worse as it went on is blaspheme and should be punished....To the guillotine with you...
Quite a lot to read, i know, i had time on my hands...
Well to start with, FF12, it just seemed like any other RPG game that is out there, offline and online. And I will list a couple examples of where they went wrong... which was pretty much the whole game
Final fantasy to me isn’t about graphics or ‘game play’ (<- not game mechanics) it’s about the storyline and imagination. FF12 seems to me to be the end result that people with little FF imagination and originality would think up. The settings, clothes and environment just seem so basic and unoriginal compared to what FF 1-10 has offered.
1. The game mechanics. Instead of picture based environment or whatever it’s called, they changed it to the typical third person camera mode. You might say what’s wrong with that and I would have to say ‘nothing’, for another RPG game, but FF should have stuck to what made it what it was. I think the previous style is what made it interesting and gave FF its unique look.
2. Battle system. What were they thinking!? Seriously. It might be enjoyable for some but for me and I’m sure most of the original (if you can say that) FF players, it was a bad decision and, in my eyes, it was what ruined the game for me. I heard that after a while of playing you could effectively make your characters run an attack sequence automatically without the need of the players interaction. What’s the point of playing then? I don’t know if this is %100 true but I do remember I could macro a lot of moves for other players. Also, starting in FFX the summoning moves. The best thing about the summoning spells was the cinematic videos that came with it. I remember when I first saw Kotrt... it went on for like 2 minutes. It was amazing... at the time
3. The Airship... Not being able to control it, why would they take that away? The world map? These are the things that started to change in FFX but these are the little quirks that made FF what it was.
4. Voice acting. This doesn’t really bother me to much but it would bother me in the slightest if they still had it silent. I’m sure kids don’t read that much these days, and it was good for me as a 10 year old. The reason for this is not that i think about it at this age, my imagination of some of the voices for FF characters were just that, they were left to my imagination and thats better than some of the wimply ass boyband voices they've give us.
And I’m pretty sure I know the reason for all this change. Simply it was the change in designers and management. I actually (being quite bored right now) just went to look of the credits for the FF games and I notice during the time of the game play/mechanics shift there have been a shuffle of old square employees with newer ones. So it’s not that they’ve tried something new, its that it’s there first time trying something at all and they want to make their mark on the game world.
I know a guy that was involved with the character dialogue of FF12 and he said a lot of theses younger game development teams are trying to hit a wide ranged target and maximise distribution. Quite simply make more money. Look at FF-X. Not once have they made a prequel to a FF game but as soon as power starts shifting hands bam! Look at Hollywood movies and how they milk films for all there worth. But what can I do about it now.
Sorry if I sound preachy but when it comes to this game I am quite sentimental. It just seems a independent company has been spotted by money grabbing business men who only care about one thing, marketing! And I’m quite sure that ‘most’ of the big FF 12 fans are from a younger generation... and if I’m wrong big deal, it doesn’t change that fact that FF has lost it. A little comparison in the music world - i dont know the age group of these forums but if anyone is a hiphop fan 'Original FFs' (as i put it) would be the Roots, tribe called quest, pharaoh monch etc where as FF12 is solder boy/lil wezzy
From FFX-2 The series got worse. There I said it. No wait. The series completely lost the plot!To sit here and say the series got worse as it went on is blaspheme and should be punished....
Well thats a shame but whatever man. Now if you dont like 9 ALSO then you dont know what FF isI may be hated know but... I didn't really like FF7. Yes, 7 - SEVEN - VII! This is no typing mistake
Thats your definition of an FF game? So everything you said apart from everything that made FF what is was... sorry im lost in your logic? Bosses, battles and Cid have nothing to do with it man, it’s the fact that uniqueness has been replaced by the same old same old. I’m not saying it’s a ‘bad’ game but it’s just NOT a Final Fantasy.Even if it doesn't feel like a FF (many didn't, for me) it's still a good game. It has a decent story, many nice side-quests, battles, bosses, an antagonist who's just crazy, Cid... it has everything a FF needs.
Last edited by rascalz; 11-30-2009 at 09:12 AM.
1. Creating the most mature story in the Final Fantasy franchise is catering to newer/ younger players; I added younger in their because the series is aimed toward the teengaer/twenty year olds. Be that as it is, newer players would most likely be younger. A lot of people have criticized FF XII for not being as emotional as prior Final Fantasy games - this is true. However, Matsuno's Final Fantasy Tactics, focused more on politics and had emotion in the game; emotion was not the driving force just like Final Fantasy XII yet, people hate on Final Fantasy XII. There is plenty of emotion in Final Fantasy XII but it is not central to the story; I would suggest not trying to debate this as I have just watched the game over on youtube for research - I saw emotion in the characters and I gained a better understading of the story and the game overall. If you or any other would choose to debate that I will just point you to scenes in the game where there is emotion, which are bountiful, and sit upon my command chair in the Alexander as victor. The series has always been everchanging, never becoming stale, if you do not like change then it would be most wise to leave the series as that is the true nature of the series - not the desires of fans to stifle the series into repitiveness; each Final Fantasy game brings new innovation and changes.Originally Posted by rascalz
2. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy is not Final Fantasy. Many people who claim to be fans of the series oft forget that Final Fantasy does not stick to a strict formula; some things transfer over (deep characters, great storyline, fantastic music, etc.) and some things change (battle system, story, setting, etc.). Cause if I want to get down to it, I could use that philosophy of not changing and say that a majority of Final Fantasies are not a real Final Fantasy. Some examples: every game that was not directed by Sakuguchi is not a real FF (FF VI and on); every Final Fantasy that is not turn-based is not a real FF (FF IV-FIX, FF XI, XIV FF XII); every online FF is not a real FF (FF XI & FF XIV, though I believe Sakuguchi once said that an online FF is what he always envisioned for the series and many players of FF XI say that the Chains of Promathia story is one of the best in the entire series); every FF game with a female main character/main protagonist is not a real FF (FF VI, FF X, FF XII, & most likely FF XIII); every FF game where the main character/protagonist becomes unable to play is not a real FF (FF VI & FF VII); whenever the villian accoplishes their goal(s) is not a real FF (FF VI); a FF game that is very opened-ended is not a real FF game (FF VI). Of course, they are all Final Fantasy games fans should not try to brand the series so consveratively it does the series no good.
3. Actually this site is very good about respecting people's opinion; people here won't respond with "nobody gives a f**k about your opinion" or "this is a troll topic". They will debate you as some already have and as I am. This site is not like gamefaqs or vgchartz where what you said is very true. I am glad I am a part of this site and not others because they are just savages elsewhere; TFF has a sophistication that makes it shine.
1. The reason why people hate Final Fantasy XII so much is because... I'll let Obama tell you why; Obama you have the floor.
Obama: CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most people hated the change but the reasons they give show just how dim-witted the Final Fantasy fan base and players of the game are; this revelation first came about with FF VIII, but I believe that with FF XII it was more severe.
2. The "Empire vs. Rebel" theme is used in Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy VI and to some extent: Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VII, and Final Fantasy VIII. I'll add the whole "it was Star Wars" here. No story that is done now will be 100 percent original, yes there can be similiarities between FF XII and Star Wars but Rogue Galaxy had more similiarities than FF XII to Star Wars. The developers said that they were not influenced, inspired, or took from Star Wars - subject matter closed. In Japan, there was not this problem because Star Wars is not big or as big there as it is in the West, who when playing FF XII will think Star Wars. On a final note, didn't George Lucas borrow heavily from Akira Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress? Yeah, I thought so and I don't hear people bashing Star Wars; maybe in Japan they do because The Hidden Fortress is a Japanese movie I don't know, but if they did that would be hilarious.
3. This is quite true. When I first played Final Fantasy V I thought it was boring and not that good, but now it is my favourite of the SNES era and my favourite 2-D Final Fantasy game. My first experience with Final Fantasy II was not that good, but after my second playthrough I like it a lot more. If I had stopped playing Final Fantasy VI once I got into the World of Ruin I would have had a better judgment of it, since I beat the game it lost of few points.
4. I too get tired of the FF XII bashing especially when they bring their faulty points to the debate, it amazes me how stupid a lot of people can be.
Here, here. While I enjoyed very much the battle system, the guillotines sound good to me or how about being struck down and sent to the oblivion by Judge Magister Zecht!!! (An awesome scene in FF XII)
0. Final Fantasy XII had a mixture of medieval Mediterranean countries as inspiration for the setting, along with India and New York. Final Fantasy XII looked to be quite unique compared to the other Final Fantasies. The developers took Sanskrit to be used in Bhujerba; when did another Final Fantasy use another real language, much less Sanskrit, and incorparate it into the speech of a city? If having a medieval look is basic then what about the first few Final Fantasy games with their European medieval look? The buildings of Final Fantasy XII are very detailed structures and there are many different cultures within the game.
0. Final fantasy to me isn’t about graphics or ‘game play’ (<- not game mechanics) it’s about the storyline and imagination. FF12 seems to me to be the end result that people with little FF imagination and originality would think up. The settings, clothes and environment just seem so basic and unoriginal compared to what FF 1-10 has offered.
1. The game mechanics. Instead of picture based environment or whatever it’s called, they changed it to the typical third person camera mode. You might say what’s wrong with that and I would have to say ‘nothing’, for another RPG game, but FF should have stuck to what made it what it was. I think the previous style is what made it interesting and gave FF its unique look.
2. Battle system. What were they thinking!? Seriously. It might be enjoyable for some but for me and I’m sure most of the original (if you can say that) FF players, it was a bad decision and, in my eyes, it was what ruined the game for me. I heard that after a while of playing you could effectively make your characters run an attack sequence automatically without the need of the players interaction. What’s the point of playing then? I don’t know if this is %100 true but I do remember I could macro a lot of moves for other players. Also, starting in FFX the summoning moves. The best thing about the summoning spells was the cinematic videos that came with it. I remember when I first saw Kotrt... it went on for like 2 minutes. It was amazing... at the time
3. The Airship... Not being able to control it, why would they take that away? The world map? These are the things that started to change in FFX but these are the little quirks that made FF what it was.
4. Voice acting. This doesn’t really bother me to much but it would bother me in the slightest if they still had it silent. I’m sure kids don’t read that much these days, and it was good for me as a 10 year old. The reason for this is not that i think about it at this age, my imagination of some of the voices for FF characters were just that, they were left to my imagination and thats better than some of the wimply ass boyband voices they've give us.
5. And I’m pretty sure I know the reason for all this change. Simply it was the change in designers and management. I actually (being quite bored right now) just went to look of the credits for the FF games and I notice during the time of the game play/mechanics shift there have been a shuffle of old square employees with newer ones. So it’s not that they’ve tried something new, its that it’s there first time trying something at all and they want to make their mark on the game world.
6. I know a guy that was involved with the character dialogue of FF12 and he said a lot of theses younger game development teams are trying to hit a wide ranged target and maximise distribution. Quite simply make more money. Look at FF-X. Not once have they made a prequel to a FF game but as soon as power starts shifting hands bam! Look at Hollywood movies and how they milk films for all there worth. But what can I do about it now.
7. Sorry if I sound preachy but when it comes to this game I am quite sentimental. It just seems a independent company has been spotted by money grabbing business men who only care about one thing, marketing! And I’m quite sure that ‘most’ of the big FF 12 fans are from a younger generation... and if I’m wrong big deal, it doesn’t change that fact that FF has lost it. A little comparison in the music world - i dont know the age group of these forums but if anyone is a hiphop fan 'Original FFs' (as i put it) would be the Roots, tribe called quest, pharaoh monch etc where as FF12 is solder boy/lil wezzy
1. Really? Pre-renedered backgrounds (I think that is the correct terminology) gave off a "Final Fantasy" feel? There are many things fans get wrong about what the series is about, but this I have not seen before. I guess Final Fantasy XIII won't feel as much as Final Fantasy because most likely you can rotate the camera.
2. Such conservative views of the battle system would then not have allowed for the ATB system in the series. The battle system changes from each iteration and it changes its nature as well every so often (Turn-based, ATB, ADB, CTB). Innovation does not come about from rehashing old ways; it takes something new. It is true that with the correct set-up a player would not need to touch the controller, though there are those who say that there is still need to change up the gambits with the hunts; however if you read the instructional booklet you will notice that you could TURN OFF the gambits. Now, I always controlled one character as is done in the Tales of series, Star Ocean, Rogue Galaxy, and other games like them; the gambits were the perfect AI system for the player because it allowed for precise tactics *cough* Dragon Age *cough*. The player would control exactly how they wanted that character to act and they could change it up in the midst of battle, unlike other games where you would have to select a "strategy". In FF XII, the player could turn off all the gambits and play in "wait mode", "active mode" is very hectic and too much for no gambits, and with that set-up it is very similiar to the ATB system - problem solved.
But! Do the players do this?
No!
Why?
Because they can't think outside the box, mindless drones are they.
3. The airship as it once was is most likely gone due to hardware limitations. While it was cool and fun that is something that has changed as the series has progressed. I don't cry or make a fuss about it because there are more important things then being able to control the airship.
4. The voice acting in Final Fantasy XII was superb; I didn't know that all 17 year olds were supposed to sound like they could stop and earthquake by stomping their foot on the ground (Yujiro Hanma - Baki the Grappler). I don't know who you would call wimpy? Vaan? The guy who took up Gabranth's blade and struck the mortal blow against Vayne? That's pretty wimpy. Some notables: Dr. Cid, Balthier, Reddas, Gabranth, and Bergan were great. After watching it on youtube, I never realized how many great lines and scenes there were in Final Fantasy XII; it is all the hate the they are not appreciated more- tis a shame.
5. Most of the people who worked on Final Fantasy XII are Matsuno's team who worked on: Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story, Ogre Battle, and games of Matsuno. They had plenty of experience.
6. The funny thing is... Final Fantasy XII is not a sequel. And sequels were something that was not Final Fantasy, but they haven't been atrocious.
7. I may be considered part of the younger generation only because I got into Final Fantasy at such a later stage in my life and in the series; my first Final Fantasy that I beat was Final Fantasy X. I did go back and beat every game in the main series before that and have done so for the main series excluding FF XI. However this may be an advantage because I was more matured; childhood memories of things are looked back as being better however sometimes those evaluations are not right and it makes people blind to the new (I don't think I worded this right as what I'm trying to convey is a bit tricky, hopefully it will be understood).
Main series FFs Beaten - FF: 4x, FFII: 3x, FFIII: 3x, FFIV: 3x, FFV: 3x, FFVI: 4x, FFVII: 5x, FFVIII: 5x, FFIX: 3x, FFX: 4x, FFXII: 3x, FFXIII: 2x, FFXV: 2x
I dont really care about graphics ^^'
(Since im playing LOD for the 3rd time, and it has 4 discs O.o)
But... I think the new FF's are getting a little to...
techy... Guns... Ugh...
Now Final Fantasy 9... That was the last, great FF game to me =) FF XII is "Okay" but it's not... "Great"... The battle system is okay too... But... I like the normal FF battle systems...
(I'm, hopefully, gonna get FF X some time ^^')
O.o That's my opinion... ^^
JillXWesker & MeruXDart FTW!
I also think that Final Fantasy is falling downhill. I did like Final Fantasy X, but it was not as good as its Playstation predecessors, and in my opinion there hasn't been a really good Final Fantasy game since (I have not and do not plan to play FFXI so it is pretty much not included). I like the battle system in Final Fantasy X-2, but the story just isn't even comparable to the original. I think Square Enix is not as good as it once was.
This doesn't really relate completely to the topic, but I'm pretty disappointed now. It has been eight years since Final Fantasy X, a good Final Fantasy game, was released.Final Fantasy Tactics, VII, VIII, IX, and X, which are all great games, were released in five years. I'm getting pretty sick of waiting for Square Enix to get their act together.
I really have not liked what Square Enix has been making these past few years. It seems that they have been more interested in making remakes and horrible spin-off games than continuing the improve the main series. They have remade FFI(2), FFII(2), FFIII, FFIV(2), FFV, and FFVI despite the fact that all of these except for FFIII have already been remade... They also made these "kiddy" Tactics games, which in my opinion have not compared to the original in any way except for maybe the battle system. I'm not even going to talk about Crystal Chronicles or Chocobo's Dungeon.
I'm not sure about other people's opinions, but I'm pretty hesitant with Final Fantasy XIII right now too. I guess we'll just have to see how it turns out. I just hope it isn't worse than Final Fantasy XII.
First I would like to say that I do not completely dislike FFXII. It is just that I feel it is inferior to the majority of the previous FF games. I enjoyed some parts of it, but there were several parts that I did not like.
@Zargabaath
Final Fantasy XII is not bad simply because it "changed." I would be completely fine with change as long as the changes are to improve the game and the series as a whole.
I'll just list the reasons why I feel Final Fantasy XII isn't as good as it's predecessors. These are mainly just opinions, but you can take them as you will.
1. The Story: I have not finished this game yet, so I cannot fully comment on the story, but from what I have played, it is certainly not as good as the previous FF games. The story here seems pretty generic, and I feel this could have been the story to any RPG because it seems very familiar to other games story wise. I also saw this compared to Final Fantasy Tactics. In my opinion even the story in Final Fantasy Tactics is better than this story, and Final Fantasy Tactics isn't even known for it's story. Also the characters in the game are pretty generic as well. Fran and Balthier are pretty cool, but the others aren't very interesting.
2. The Battle System: I admit that the battle system in Final Fantasy XII is pretty addicting initially, but later on in the game, the flaws start to appear. First of all, the License Board is very easy to complete. After this, the game kind of loses its incentive for level grinding, and just battling random monsters in general. This also makes all of the characters exactly the same. Easily, all your characters will have the same skills, magick, and be able to equip the same weapons and armor. This leads to the characters being generic once again. Also the Gambit System turns out to be pretty ridiculous. You could set up all your characters so that they would automatically attack, heal, and everything else so that in battles you no longer had to do anything and could destroy just about anything by only walking up towards it and letting the characters fight with their Gambits. This might have worked well for the characters you weren't controlling, but it just turned out to be bad that you could have all of your characters do everything without any thought from the player. This took a lot of the difficulty out of the game. I know that it is possible to control your characters without the Gambit system, but I don't think there should even be such an easy way out as the Gambit system.
3. Mobility: This has been said before, but I still miss the ability to move about the world freely in an airship or other vehicle like was in previous games. I also missed this in Final Fantasy X. This isn't a major issue, but it still is a downside in my opinion.
I could go on, but I've been typing this for awhile now, and I'm tired. Maybe I'll come back and post some more at a later point.
Last edited by Treize; 11-30-2009 at 10:29 PM.
Same here. Everyone I've known who hated it couldn't tell me one thing they liked... but only have one or two reasons as to why it sucked.
Init.
I don't think Final Fantasy is going downhill, just not many people respond well to change. New generation consoles are coming out every couple of years. People are ditching the old CRT televisions for something larger, flat screen, and High-Definition to play games on (and movies, but we're talking about games here).
I dislike the digs at Final Fantasy XII because everyone I've spoken who didn't like it didn't give it credit for the parts they did like. Everyone is quick to make the negative pointers list, and the game wasn't bad.
This is something I liked. It gave you more to look at and admire about the work that went into the game levels and characters. It didn't remove that Final Fantasy feeling at all for me - if anything, it made me look forward to when Final Fantasy hits the Playstation 3.
The new battle system, I'll admit, was a risky move. But it worked. The gambits I thought were a stroke of genius. Yes, you could be lazy and set gambits so that you wouldn't have any input whatsoever, but they help a ton in the heat of a battle when you have very little time to enter a command. All I will say to those who got lazy is... you got lazy, and you missed out.
This:
And:
Why would you need to control the airship? It was a feature that was pretty good in the older games, but... okay, Oblivion reference: if you can "fast-travel", why take the horse? You take the horse because you want to explore every nook and cranny of every area. I rarely used the airships in Final Fantasy XII because I ran pretty much everywhere. Sometimes multiple times, collecting loot, items, and shit tons of exp (Embroidered Tippet ftfw). It's how I levelled so fast.
If it doesn't bother you much, and would bother you if it was silent, then... why such negativity? As for kids not reading as much these days... that is somewhat a point, but if a game can cater for kids that want to read, then by all means. The voices weren't always the greatest, but they weren't "wimply ass boyband voices". Lets face it - dubs usually suck.
Agreed. Here's to hoping Final Fantasy XV goes medieval.
I don't think the remakes are a bad thing. Some of the spin-off's sucked, but the remakes are okay. Square Enix can't just move forward and forget the master pieces they've left in the past to rot along with the older consoles (NES I'm talking about sadly - don't hate me), and they need to appeal to a fresher audience. I would never have played Final Fantasy I if it wasn't for the PSP version. I'd love to play it on the NES and get a feel for how it was meant to be played, but that takes a good eye, trust in the people you're buying a NES from, money for the console, the game and anything else you'd need. I can't see a twelve year old asking for a NES this Christmas.
If you're a true Final Fantasy fan, you'd at least rent it and give it the time of day.
That had better not be a dig at Dragon Age.
... phew.
Last edited by Unknown Entity; 12-01-2009 at 11:40 AM.
"I used to be active here like you, then I took an arrow in the knee."
>>>------------->
Suddenly... clutter.:
Warning free for over eight years. Feels good.
I agree, after X, the games begun going downhill quickly. Where to start? FFX2! To me, that failed as a true sequel to the fantastic original. That game was just to female orientated, through I love Yuna and Rikku, come on! Add in some past male party members like Wakka or Kimarhi! Or add in some new males like Naaj or Barliel (I know I spelled his name wrong). While the final bosses like Vegy and Shuyin were awesome and the romantic love story between Lenne and Shuyin was cute, the story just didnt scream RPG style to me. And you need a 100% story rating to get the perfect ending? No, just no.
Next is FFXI: I admit, I've played FFXI for a long time, and I really enjoyed it, but that monthly fee has started to be bother me, especially with this recession, they accidently charged me twice, but to them "They let me play free for a month" yeah whatever POL. And to be honest FFXI has lost its magic, back in the early days, well when I started as a noob back in 2006 the game was fantastic, I made quick friends, leveling buddies, friends that helped me out with gil to get me started, and the parties through difficult at first began to grow on me. Back then when blms were monster destroyers, and before TOAU came out, I had an amazing time. Now, even with this new level sync, blms still get shuned to just missions, or to Manaburn parties, which even now are somewhat rare. I've just grown bored with it to be honest, plus I dont have the money to keep up the payments, because now it feels like a waste of time and money.
Next is FFXII: At first, I found FFXII to be very boring and time consuming having to deal with loot instead of the old fashioned kill monsters and bosses to get gil method. I admit, I sold the game. Now I happened to rebuy it back to give it another chance, and I admit, I think I like it now then I did back in 2006, through they need to work on the story more, like who is supposed to be the main? Vaan or Ashe? Even through FFXII is great, I think after I beat it, I might not play it again. The Bosses (some) are hard as heck, I've had some close calls but luckily managed to pull out a win, especially on the Ahriman Boss fight, that was tough, to tough. I'm close to finishing the game now, so I might just resell it after I beat it. Through FFXII is a good game, its definitely (to me) not replayable.
To me, FFI Through FFX were the best. Especially FFIX, my all time favorite! I love it! The NES to the PS1 era was the best period. FFX was the only PS2 FF I really enjoyed. Oh and FF Tactics Advance for the GBA was enjoyable too.
EDIT: If FFXIII beyond is anything like FFXII, I don't know if I would even touch it, well I can't anyway, I dont have a PS3! XD
Last edited by Phantom; 12-01-2009 at 11:07 AM.
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Quite true, it seems as though they are blinded by the negatives that forget the positive or view the game as entirely as negative.
Very nice point.
What voices did you find to be "not the greatest"? This is out of curiousity
It was not a dig at Dragon Age. If you look in the sentence where I "coughed" you will see "gambits" and "tactics"; "tactics" are the "gambits" of Dragon Age. That "cough" was to show the influence and impact of Final Fantasy XII that was all.That had better not be a dig at Dragon Age.
I ask: do you know how hard it is for a sequel's story to be as good as the original? Expectations should be set lower because it was a sequel and it was not a full effort from Square. Being that it was not a full effort from Square, why have high expectations?
As Unknown Entity said, Square is offering their earlier works to the new generation so that may experience the games and become a bigger fan of the series. I also think with the increase in development time for games, let alone a Final Fantasy, Square needs to get some revenue. It is unfortunate and sad that it takes longer for the next Final Fantasy game to come out, though Final Fantasy XIV will be out late 2010 so we will have had two Final Fantasies released in one year, but I'd rather wait longer than Square to go under and there be no new Final Fantasies.
I really have not liked what Square Enix has been making these past few years. It seems that they have been more interested in making remakes and horrible spin-off games than continuing the improve the main series. They have remade FFI(2), FFII(2), FFIII, FFIV(2), FFV, and FFVI despite the fact that all of these except for FFIII have already been remade... They also made these "kiddy" Tactics games, which in my opinion have not compared to the original in any way except for maybe the battle system. I'm not even going to talk about Crystal Chronicles or Chocobo's Dungeon.
What parts did you like?
All the previous FFs can be summed up to be generic, however in each game, FF XII included, there is a lot more to the story.
And other FFs could have been the story to any other RPG and other RPG could have been a FF story. But, when you turn FF XII's story into "basically it is ..." then yes it would appear to be like a story from another RPG as other Final Fantasies could be.
While FFT's story was original not translated well, from what I gathered the story was greatly liked.
And the characters of the other Final Fantasies can be just as generic. The FF XII characters had depth, but they didn't take as many lines as past games did in creating that depth. Final Fantasy XII used less lines and less words however, what you got out of their lines was more than what was said on a scale never before done in Final Fantasy. It took the player to think about what the characters words meant, it was not spoonfed. Also, not only did they use less lines to convey their characters, but with body language/facial experessions as well.
Dr. Cid, Gabranth, or Ashe were not interesting? (To name a few)
It is not difficult to complete the License Board, but how often has it been hard to "break" the system or to become "beast" in any other Final Fantasy game?
I know you haven't forgotten about farming for loot to gain weapons via the Bazaar. Also, what level did you complete the License Board? I am around level 65 and none of my license boards are complete, though I probably could complete it with the excess license points I accumulated.
And there a few Final Fantasies where the characters are distinctively different. Most Final Fantasy games have allowed for loads of character customization, Final Fantasy XII is not different yet garners more heat.
When I go to the Final Fantasy VI gamefaqs boards I see plenty of topics or posts about the best set-up for a party, for getting the most out of the characters with great detail about what is best. In Final Fantasy XII, the characters do have grades in the stats, yet I see nothing of the same for FF XII as in FF VI, for example. The same thing can be done for Final Fantasy XII, the best tank, the best damage dealer, mage, etc., but it has not been done on the same scale. But why is there hate on FF XII and not on the other games? It's because it is a blind hatred toward the game because of the change, not on the quality of change which is good.
And setting up your gambits is optionally and how many you set-up is optional as well. Are you telling me you don't like being able to have an option to turn off the gambits? Would you have preferred that you had to use gambits for all the characters? Unlike past Final Fantasy games where if you didn't like the battle system you couldn't change it much - in Final Fantasy XII you could change it more than any prior game. The developers did not limit the player, appreciate their genius to allow such an option.
Keyword: could. You realize this, yet still try to penalize the battle system regardless. The option to turn the gambits on or off nulls that point. Thought is still required because you have to set-up your gambits to the situation which changes as many have said that during the tough fights they had to change their gambits. So, you don't like any AI system in a RPG? The gambits gave control to the player like never before. Square said, "We won't make pre-rendered tactics, but we will allow the player to create their own system, to try and figure out the best set-up". There have been bad AI systems in RPGs before, why players would hate having control like never before bewilders me; do players not like having control?
I did not add this response to my previous post because I did not want to have this overlooked as I find it to be quite a great point against the quote about.
It does appear that children read less and less, I was not one of them, however if you played Final Fantasy XII - if you listened or read - you would know that Final Fantasy XII is the best game for young minds. I had recently started FF VI up again, though I may hold off on it for a while, but it amused me how basic the vocabulary was in the game and it is the same throughout the series - except for Final Fantasy XII. For any young mind there are more words that they would have to look up than in any previous Final Fantasy. The sentence structures in the past games were also simplistic, yet take a look at Final Fantasy XII and you will have to stop to think about what the character said because of the complex sentence structure and the fact that there was more in the sentence than what was just said - something not done by past Final Fantasy games. In the end, Final Fantasy XII is great for kids as it teaches them BIG words and involves critical thinking.
P.S. There are also subtitles availabe so they could read it as well.
Main series FFs Beaten - FF: 4x, FFII: 3x, FFIII: 3x, FFIV: 3x, FFV: 3x, FFVI: 4x, FFVII: 5x, FFVIII: 5x, FFIX: 3x, FFX: 4x, FFXII: 3x, FFXIII: 2x, FFXV: 2x
A lot of when the characters were supposed to be displaying emotion, I felt it lacked a little. Imagine a character lashing out at another one, you'd expect them to be shouting something angrily. Instead, you get this fake anger which sounds just like two kids arguing while the parents are asleep next door. It's not often though.
In the cut-scene as you use the airship to get onto the Bahamut, Vayne is talking with his brother who is asking him to surrender. Vayne then turns to his soldiers, and shouts "For Arcadia!" The way the soldiers shout back doesn't sound right. It's as if they all have the same voice (with minor tweaking), and whoever acted the voice didn't put enough umph into it.
Also, Penelo's voice annoyed me slightly.
I was kidding.It was not a dig at Dragon Age. If you look in the sentence where I "coughed" you will see "gambits" and "tactics"; "tactics" are the "gambits" of Dragon Age. That "cough" was to show the influence and impact of Final Fantasy XII that was all.
"I used to be active here like you, then I took an arrow in the knee."
>>>------------->
Suddenly... clutter.:
Warning free for over eight years. Feels good.
Maybe I should say this right away. Final Fantasy isn't going downhill just from Final Fantasy XII. That seems to be the only thing people are focusing on... Just ignoring Final Fantasy XII for a moment, about every other Final Fantasy game since Final Fantasy X has been pretty bad in my opinion.
- I know that I have not liked any of the Crystal Chronicles or Chocobo spin-off games.
- Also the new Tactics games haven't even come close to being as good as the original except for the battle system.
- Final Fantasy X-2 had a pretty bad story. It's battle system was fun, but the story pretty much ruined it for me.
@Zargabaath: Square shouldn't even make games if they aren't going to put a "full effort" into them.- Dirge of Cerberus is just horrible. I don't even think I can name one good point.
- I have not played Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings, but I haven't heard anything good about it. From what I have heard, it doesn't seem to be that great of a game.
Someone please tell me if there is another game that was made since Final Fantasy X that is any good. If there is, I would certainly like to play it, but I haven't seen any.
Like I sad before, if Square isn't going to put an effort into making games, it shouldn't make them. I really don't want to hear "it was not a full effort." That is one of the worst excuses I've heard. Even still, my expectations were set low, and the story was still bad. Also this relates to what I was saying earlier. It seems like almost all the recent Final Fantasy related games do not have the full effort from Square. This is why I've been disappointed.
Also in my opinion, setting story aside, Final Fantasy XII isn't much better than Final Fantasy X-2... That doesn't seem too good when a game where the company "wasn't even trying" is just about as good as a game that they were developing for five years.
Maybe I should clarify myself. I am not against Square remaking some of their classic games, but it has gone over board. All of these games have been remade several times except for Final Fantasy III and Tactics. I think the original Final Fantasy can be played on almost any system now. I think it is bad if the majority of the games you release are just remakes, or even random spin-off games that are crap for that matter. If Square wants to make some revenue, they should be coming out with some more new, innovative games instead of just rehashing the same games over and over again. I don't want a company who is just going to throw out crap for years, and can hardly even make good games anymore.
My points before were trying to convey how it is worse than previous games. Just about everything was acceptable, but I was expecting a little more after waiting for five years--the time that it took to make five other games that are much better.
Like I said before, the battle system is pretty addicting. I also liked the change in that you could see the monsters on the map. This may not be the best, but it isn't bad to change the battle system up every once in awhile. This may not matter to some people, but I also like the graphics. Sure, the character designs weren't the greatest, but the cities and the different areas look pretty good.
Again, Final Fantasy XII isn't horrible. It is just worse than a lot of previous games.
I do not think that FF IV, VI-VIII, and X can even be considered generic. Maybe FFIV a little now, but back when I last played it, it did not seem that generic. Even Final Fantasy IX, which was very generic in a lot of ways, was far better than Final Fantasy XII. As I've said before, in my opinion the story in Final Fantasy XII isn't as great when comparing to previous Final Fantasy games. This is an opinion, so I can't really change your mind if your opinion differs.
As I've said before, previous Final Fantasy games seem a lot more original to me. Final Fantasy XII just seems a lot like some other Square games that have been made. For a lot of Final Fantasy games, I can't even name a game that has a comparable story or very similar themes. That is not true about Final Fantasy XII, though.
I wasn't trying to say that FFT's story isn't liked. I think that FFT was more made for the battle system than anything else. With a game like Final Fantasy Tactics, I place the battle system over the story. However, in a traditional RPG like Final Fantasy XII, the thing I'm looking forward to the most is the story. It was expecting a better story than FFT, and in my opinion, FFXII didn't match my expectations. Lets face it, there aren't that many great innovations in FFXII that are worth looking forward to more than the story should be. Maybe if I would have lowered my expectations like you said I should have done for FFX-2, I would have liked it more, but I feel like I should not have to keep lowering my standards. I would think that the games would be better, and I could raise my expectations, but I guess not.
I'm not saying all of the characters are completely generic. Some characters did have depth. However, If I remember right, there really are not that many characters who are more generic than Vaan and Penelo. This might be a little too extreme, but to me they are comparable to the Thief and Black Mage in the original Final Fantasy. Once again I've not completed the game yet, so if they somehow have these major parts at the end of the game, then I may be wrong, but from what I've played, they have contributed little to nothing to the entire game.
At least in other games you had to work towards it. In this game it is so easy to complete the License Board, that it is a little ridiculous. These are just comparisons to specific games that I liked. In Final Fantasy IV, there really wasn't much of a way to "break" the system unless you leveled a lot and were at a really high level, but then again this took some work to do. In Final Fantasy VII, there are some ways to "break" the system with your materia, but even then a lot of the bosses are quite challenging and it would be next to impossible to win without doing this, and you could still level materia, or use different materia. In FFXII, once you mastered the License board, that was it. What was left to do? Buy the stuff? In Final Fantasy VIII, you could somewhat "break" the system with your Junctions, but even then since the monsters leveled up with Squall, the game still had increasing difficulty. In Final Fantasy IX, the only way I saw to "break" the system was to level up to really high levels, but that would take extra time. In Final Fantasy X you could "break" the system, but it takes a lot or extra time and work to do that. In Final Fantasy XII it just happens naturally on its own.
I completed the License Boards in my 40s. Even then there are a lot of spaces that you would never use, so you could get every possible square that you would use in the late 30s probably. Farming for loot was fun, but you do not have to defeat some enemies a lot just for loot. From what I remember, there were only certain enemies that you had to defeat to get the loot that you needed. In the license board on the other hand, it was useful to defeat any type of enemy.
I have not seen another Final Fantasy game where a character can do everything. I like some more diversification. In my opinion, it was annoying that any character could equip any weapon/armor/accesory, use all magick/skills, and pretty much do anything any other character could do. At least in other games there was always at least some differences between characters unless you chose to have them all be the same. For Final Fantasy XII, you don't choose for your characters to be the same. They just are.
I was trying to say that I do not like that there is even an option for the player to be able to set the gambits up so that they can literally win without having to even enter any command. I do not specifically hate the gambits, but I do dislike this option of "playing" without even doing anything. This is optional to turn off or not use to its fullest, but I still find this to be a downside.
Maybe it isn't the best game for kids if they aren't going to understand half the plot... It will most likely seem even more boring than it already is. I don't think most kids have the initiative to be looking up a lot of words while playing the game.
This doesn't really relate to what you posted, but I think it would be nice if the Japanese voice track was included. Then you could have better voice actors, and can read the subtitles if you don't understand Japanese. I've liked when this was done in other RPGs, but I think that Final Fantasy just becomes too localized and this will probably never happen.
Finally about FFXIV being released in the same year, I don't even really care. I am not going to pay this monthly fee in order to play it. I probably would not be able to play enough to make it worth the money anyway. These online games are good for some people, but I really wish that Square would come out with more console games that are actually good.
Last edited by Treize; 12-01-2009 at 07:49 PM.
If you're referring to FFVII-FFX being released look at it from this point of view. Each game is not started when the last is finished. FFVII ended and FFVIII was not suddenly started and finished in a year. It only looks that way from the outsider. In fact FFVII was started back on the N64 and when they switched over to the PSone for FFVII they were already developing FFVIII. A year or two into the development of FFVIII FFIX was started. Suddenly you have three games in parallel development at different stages. You're able to offset the cycle and release games back to back quickly. However, each game still took two to three years of development time. FFVIII and FFIX were not pushed out in a year with the level of detail and quality that were put into them. It is just not physically possible to do this.My points before were trying to convey how it is worse than previous games. Just about everything was acceptable, but I was expecting a little more after waiting for five years--the time that it took to make five other games that are much better.
The same went for FFX it was in development while they were releasing FFIX. Once they got the new PS2 dev kits they were hard at work on it. Remember back in 2000? Square announced FFX, FFXI and FFXII at all the same time. They already had three games planned to ship. It's how they work and FFX and FFXI came out pretty fast. However, FFXII had staff problems. The guy directing the game had a mental break down during production. When the guy with the vision leaves the team. It's going to cause a ripple effect through the entire development team. The reason the same took 6 years to make was because they have to fix the staff issues. Production was slowed down.
And also look at what Square is doing with FFXIII. They announced 3 titles all at the same time. Just like back in 2000. The game development cycle works a lot differently than the customer realizes. The reason for the delay on FFXIII? They were building a new engine, the White Engine for FFXIII. Engine development takes time and you can't even built a game without the engine. You can draw on paper and design and make things on your computer. But you can't put it together without the engine and even then until you have the engine you can't even really start doing the real work because you have to adapt and change your creation and pipelines to fit into the new engine. Games are getting complicated these days. It is nothing like the NES and SNES days. Building high quality HD art assets takes time. The longest process for a game these days is the art creation. Designers already have their stuff done and doing iterations and tweaks while the artists are still building the final models for their games.
I speak from experience here since I worked for a game company for 3 years and saw an entire game from pre-production to sale. I understand this process better than most who just simply go to a store and buy the game when it comes out.
As for games that make you able to be everything. You are forgetting FFX with the sphere grid. Every single character were completely identical they just started in different locations. The only thing that changed who they were was the weapons. Also FFVIII every character was the same. You had magic drawn. You customized who had what, but in the end you could make them all completely identical and you probably did because you were the strongest that way. FFT, story characters excluded, every single soldier you recruited were all the same. They could all be the same jobs, the only thing that made them different was gender and faith/brave. In the end you could have an army monks if you wish. They were all just jobs. FFVII everyone was the same the only thing that changed them was their weapons and limit breaks. You had materia to equip that is the only way you changed them and you could still easily equip them all with the same. In fact if you're playing to win you probably did. Look at my save files everyone has quadra magic, 4x cut, long range w-summon master materia. Because its the best in the game, but they were all the same then. FFIII, what I played of it has the same thing as FFT. It's all jobs so they are all the same, they don't even have weapons that make them unique like FFVII. FFXII may allow you make everyone the same, but when you get down to half of the FF games actually do. At least in FFXI races made a difference as well as merit points.
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I don't think I explained myself well enough. Yes, there are other games where you can be have similar characters or have just about everything the same, but these are different than what was in Final Fantasy XII.
In Final Fantasy X you could complete the sphere grid, but for a normal player, you aren't going to get much farther than the section of the grid you started on. In Final Fantasy XII, a normal player will complete the license board and know everything. I think in Final Fantasy X it was much better because if you really wanted to learn everything, it took time and effort. This was more like a bonus in my opinion. Plus the characters equipped different weapons, and had different overdrives that made them unique. I have not seen any such thing in Final Fantasy XII. Sure they have different mist summonings, but, unless I missed something, they all seem to do the same thing just with different animation.
In Final Fantasy VIII there really isn't much customization. You can pretty much just increase your stats. What really makes the characters different are their limits and weapons. This is actually a pretty big difference because I know that at least I used limits all the time and they were pretty much the best attacks in the game, and different characters had different strengths. Like I said previously. There was no differentiation between characters in Final Fantasy XII because they could all equip any weapon and there wasn't any type of special attack that separated them.
Final Fantasy VII also has weapons and limit breaks to differentiate characters. Also most players aren't going to have all the characters have the same exact materia unless you spend endless hours leveling up materia in order to get the extra copies, unless there is some way that I don't know about to easily get extra copies of the one of a kind materia. Once again this takes effort to do if you especially want all your characters to be the same. Your characters just are the same in Final Fantasy XII without any effort.
Finally it is also different in Final Fantasy Tactics. As far as I know in any of the games with the job classes, there aren't classes that can do everything. You have to pick a job and then you are limited to the abilities of the job. You can then pick a secondary job and use some of those skills too, but there is no way that you can do everything. For example if you are a white mage, there is no way that you can do everything as well as a monk could. There is a big difference between the jobs.
One of my biggest problems with Final Fantasy XII is that your characters can just easily do everything and just about all the characters can do them just as well. Sure there are small differences in stats among the characters, but it is hardly noticeable. There doesn't really seem to be anything to differentiate the characters. There has always at least been something, but I haven't found anything except for the small stat differences. If someone can tell me otherwise, I would be happy to know because then I could probably have a greater appreciation for the battle system.
Also, thanks for the information about the staff problems on Final Fantasy XII. I realized that the earlier games were worked on simultaneously, but I couldn't imagine how it could take six years for one game to come out when the others came out so quickly, and other random games were being made in between.
Last edited by Treize; 12-01-2009 at 09:20 PM.
You apparently significantly over leveled in FFXII and had so much fun leveling that you didn't realize it. Because I grinded a lot in the game before beating the final boss and did not finish out the license grid for someone until I beat the game. I mean I wasted like 2-3 hours on my first playthrough to go from 40-50 to try to get through a place that was too high for me and my license grid was still no where near being completed. I had to put in the extra effort as you said, to finish the license grid. When I played on my first playthrough no one was identical until I beat the game. After beating the game I powered through the license grid and finished it. The license grid is huge and you'd have to put in a lot more hours than are necessary just to finish the game. Which as it sounds it exactly what you said for all of your other points. So it seems you're proving your own point wrong.
Also you can say that my entire argument is weighed on my own playing experience and so it can't hold water. However, you are also weighing your playing experience for your argument. So we're on equal standing here. So if you want to void my defense you'll have to void yours as well.
As for limit breaks if I remember right Climhazzard and Cosmos whatever both deal regular damage they just look different. Lulu's magic overdrive and Tidus's overdrive both do regular damage they just look different. Nearly all of the limit breaks in the FF games play different animations, but just do damage in the end, just like FFXII. Sometimes they change things up with an enfeeble, but enfeebles almost never serve a purpose in FF games because its a waste of the effort on normal monsters that die too fast and bosses are nearly all immune or highly resistant to enfeebles. Everyone uses a limit break for one reason, to deal the massive damage they hold. So FFXII aren't really any different from the rest in the series.
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I haven't played in awhile, so this could be. I just figured if I completed the license board about half way through the game with my levels in the 40s, it would be easy to finish it all by 3/4 to all the way through the game. Especially since a lot of the squares aren't even necessary to get if you aren't going to have a character use a specific weapon or armor, etc. Also it is different if you grind earlier or later in the game. If you grind earlier, you will get about the same amount of license points, but your level will not reflect it. Pretty much it is not that I was over leveling, it was more, I just battled too much against the lower leveled monsters.
This is almost all just my opinion. I am just trying to explain why I didn't like the new system. I was just trying to explain myself because you didn't seem to understand what I was trying to say. Also as of right now, I cannot see any way of how the characters in Final Fantasy XII could be more different battle wise than any previous game. They still seem to be just about the same to me regardless if they are going to get the same magick and skills as each other and not have any special attacks to separate them. You also have to admit that it is much easier to complete the license board than it is to complete the sphere grid or get several of the one of a kind materia in Final Fantasy VII.Also you can say that my entire argument is weighed on my own playing experience and so it can't hold water. However, you are also weighing your playing experience for your argument. So we're on equal standing here. So if you want to void my defense you'll have to void yours as well.
I still feel like the limits and overdrives are more different than the mist quickenings. For example in Final Fantasy VIII, just about all the final limits are different. Selphie's slots are not like anything else. Zell's duel is not like anything else. Quistis is the only one who can do Blue Magic, and a lot of these spells do different things. Rinoa is the only one can use Angelo or go into a beserk with magic. In Final Fantasy VII, a lot of the limit breaks are different. Cait Sith's and Tifa's limits breaks are certainly different from Cloud's limit breaks. No one but Vincent can turn into a monster and get totally new attacks, albeit beserked, but it is still different. Aeris's limit breaks are also different. Some change status or heal. It is also different in Final Fantasy X. Yuna is the only character who can summon. Kimahri is the only character who can use blue magic. Wakka's slots were different. Rikku's mix was pretty unique. She could combine items in order to do all sorts of different things.As for limit breaks if I remember right Climhazzard and Cosmos whatever both deal regular damage they just look different. Lulu's magic overdrive and Tidus's overdrive both do regular damage they just look different. Nearly all of the limit breaks in the FF games play different animations, but just do damage in the end, just like FFXII.
Anyway my point is that there are differences in the other games. There are just no differences I can see in Final Fantasy XII. I would think that with the license board, you are at least going to keep up with what you can buy magick and skill wise so all your characters are going to be able to do the same thing regardless of whether you complete the license board or not.
Quite true, that was a low-point for the voice-acting for Final Fantasy XII. The cast, the characters whom were distinguishable and not "grunt(s)", did a splendid job.
While she didn't annoy me, there was something about Penelo voice-acting that could put a blemish on the voice-acting of Final Fantasy XII.
My apologies, I wasn't clear in what I was trying to convey. By a "full effort" I meant that certain games get more funding, support, and a bigger development team than other games. A main entry in the Final Fantasy series gets a "full effort" from Square, while smaller series, spin-offs, sequels, or remakes don't get the same amount of effort. Now if you want Square to put the same amount of effort as a main Final Fantasy entry to all their games then those are lofty expectations and would be quite tolling on the company.
From this I take away that you think the battle system for FF X-2, the graphics for both games, the music for both games, the voice-acting for both games, the body language for both games were comparably bad? I would suggest going to youtube and watch the scenes that you have seen to refresh your memory on the voice-acting and body language of Final Fantasy XII; it was superior to that of Final Fantasy X-2.Also in my opinion, setting story aside, Final Fantasy XII isn't much better than Final Fantasy X-2... That doesn't seem too good when a game where the company "wasn't even trying" is just about as good as a game that they were developing for five years.
Four youths trying to save the world from eventual ever-lasting darkness
A group of youths trying to free the world from an evil empire
Four youths trying to stop the world for being drowned in darkness
A band of heroes trying to save the population of the planet from annihilation
A band of heroes trying to save the world from the void
A band of heroes fighting against an evil empire
A band of heroes trying to stop a man
Youths trying fighting against the sorceress
A band of heroes trying to stop the destruction of their planet's population
A Summoner and her guardians journey to stop an evil force
A Princess and her group's journey to restore her kingdom
Simple are they not, yet when you play the games there is a lot more.
And you must realize that the games will be similiar and themes may be re-used because there is hardly any originality left because somewhere that story was used before. Final Fantasy VI took from Final Fantasy II in fighting against an empire but there was more in FF VI than just that and both games branched out differently. Final Fantasy III and Final Fantasy V both have heroes chosen by the crystals yet are different. What games does Final Fantasy XII seem to be like? There are games that have used the same or similiar themes as Final Fantasy, don't be naive to think that Square somehow always found a new theme to touch on.
Square kept their standards on story with Final Fantasy XII. There are sour spots in each final fantasy game where something could have been done to make the story better - Final Fantasy XII is no different - but, people complained because how the story was presented made it appear that the story was bland and generic and that the characters were dull and undeveloped.
I don't know if you are aware of its existence but a person on gamefaqs made a great thread on the defense of FF XII's story from all inaccuracies and they do a masterful job at defending the story and use the game as the evidence (it does contain spoilers). In the thread which is quite long, he shows those who were blind the character development and the story of Final Fantasy XII; some people don't know what character development is in this age of video-gaming as they are used to it being blatantly obvious to see and with FF XII people forgot what is a "story".
How is Vaan generic? When I went back to watch FF XII on youtube for research purposes I was surprised that I had forgotten how many lines Vaan had and how they shaped his character. It was said in the beginning that Vaan and Penelo were supposed to the "commoner", they were not some legendary heroes who were capable of crushing the evil in one second or who turned out to be something special or magical as in past FFs. Vaan's and Penelo's lines and actions show very well the commoner aspect in the grand scope of things and how a commoner would think/behave. Would you want a commoner acting like nobility - if Vaan talked like Ashe, Bergan, or any other higher-educated character? I'm pretty sure you have gone through some parts of the game where you did not realize Vaan's importance as a commoner to the story, however, a commoner realistically shouldn't become too important to the story - they are afterall a commoner.
In Final Fantasy II the Blood Swords really made the final boss and a lot of the enemies ridiculously easy and the ability to wack yourself and was tons of mp in battle made leveling up your stats very easy. It may take time but time doesn't make something more difficult neccesarily just more time-consuming.
In the old version of Final Fantasy III the Ninja and Sage broke that game, now it has been better balanced on the DS version though the spell "protect" still makes the final fight easy.
In Final Fantasy V mastering certain jobs allows for certain passive ablities of that job to transfer over to the "Bare" and "Mimic" job classes which made that game very easy; the ability to dual-cast Bahamut.
In Final Fantasy VI there are plenty of set-ups that allowed the player to break the game, the older version was easier to break but I think with the newer versions they did balance the game a little bit.
If you are referring to two bosses in Final Fantasy VII then that is not " a lot", however once again it was simple to be a power-house in FF VII.
I thought the monsters leveled up with the parties level not Squalls? I believe that is so. In FF VIII the player couldn't "somewhat" break the junction system they could definitely break it. With the proper set-up battles were a breeze, also Aura first round then crush any who opposed you. It was not hard at all to break FF VIII and for that whole "the monsters level with you" trait which never got troublesome - the Level Down ability.
It seems you have forgotten about the abilities of certain characters in Final Fantasy IX that would allow them to do 9999 outside of trance; those skills didn't require the player to level up to break the system though you would through the battling.
Final Fantasy X was one of the easiest to break and though it added more time most weren't that difficult at all. My first playthrough of FF X I was doing 99,999 damage with Tidus, Wakka, Auron and put 92 hours in the game; compare my FF XII file of 115 hours I was nowhere close to doing 99,999 damage with each hit. You also got the spheres needed quite easily to get to new parts of the sphere grid.
Something I realized today about that last line of yours in the quote above. "In Final Fantasy XII it happens naturally". Really? Just because you fill out the license board doesn't make you a beast, you had to find the necessary components to actually use them. So yes go ahead and fill out the license board but if you don't have the Wrymhero Blade having that license isn't going to give you a special boost during battle. Now getting all those weapons and armour will take more time than any other Final Fantasy game (since you liked the other games taking a long time to "break" the system, you should be entralled about this game) and there are some very challenging boss fights to acquire the components as well.
I don't know how many people missed this but another complaint was " I have the weapon but because I don't have the license I can't use said weapon - meaning the license board sucks". What many people apparently missed is the explanation as to why this system was used - "As for the license system, he explained that needing "licenses" to perform certain actions was a natural extension of the rigid structured society of Archadia, as epitomized by its Judges" taken straight from the battle designer which kind of reminds players of the laws of FFTA. Gasp.
That diversification was quite small and the characters could still do anything any other character did albeit better, compareable, or not as well. As I said before, the FF VI boards on gamefaqs you'll see people talking about the perfect set-up yet for Final Fantasy XII there is nary a thread. It can be done with FF XII - Basch has a max magick power of 57 or 59 while Penelo's is at 69, so would you make Basch a mage or Penelo. Of course you could make Basch a mage but he wouldn't be as good as Penelo, just like in FF VI you could use a set-up for Cyan to become beast but guess what? Cyan sucks. Most of the other characters can do what Cyan does and greatly better. Equipping certain weapons in FF XII, armour, and accesories could allow the best set-up for a mage, but why do it on Basch who is not as good as Penelo or Ashe. The characters in FF XII are different you just haven't gone in-depth with the system. Remember RPGs are a numbers game so getting the most damage out of your "damage classes" and having the best tank to take the least amount of damage is what is looked for - this doesn't have to be followed but if you choose not to then don't complain about FF XII.
The american voice-actors did a superb job, I get tired of people complaining that american voice-actors suck and japanese are so superb. Most don't live in Japan, speak Japanese natively, nor know how japanese voice-actors are received in Japan. Because it sounds foreign they think it is better - pretentious fools.Maybe it isn't the best game for kids if they aren't going to understand half the plot... It will most likely seem even more boring than it already is. I don't think most kids have the initiative to be looking up a lot of words while playing the game.
This doesn't really relate to what you posted, but I think it would be nice if the Japanese voice track was included. Then you could have better voice actors, and can read the subtitles if you don't understand Japanese. I've liked when this was done in other RPGs, but I think that Final Fantasy just becomes too localized and this will probably never happen.
A reason why Final Fantasy XII is the most mature Final Fantasy game. What's wrong with learning new words? And that's why a lot of the younger people who didn't like the story complained because it went over their head but the game would help them with in their literary skills and in turn help them understand the story more and appreciate it. Also, I know I wouldn't want Final Fantasy to cater to kids; having something similiar to FF XII would be nice.
Main series FFs Beaten - FF: 4x, FFII: 3x, FFIII: 3x, FFIV: 3x, FFV: 3x, FFVI: 4x, FFVII: 5x, FFVIII: 5x, FFIX: 3x, FFX: 4x, FFXII: 3x, FFXIII: 2x, FFXV: 2x
This makes more sense to me than what I was interpreting you were saying before, but I still think that even a game that does not have Square's "full effort" should at least have a decent story. I could see how graphics could be lower from having a lower budget, and I'm perfectly fine with that, but when the story of a game is just really bad, it should not even be made. There are exceptions, but this is how I generally see it.
Again this is my opinion, but I still think FFX-2 isn't much worse than FFXII, if the stories are not calculated in. I liked the battle system from FFX-2, and I think that FFXII's battle system wasn't much better. FFXII just made it more fun to level grind and fight more random battles because you could do it at a fairly quick pace and there are more rewards such as loot. In the longer battles in Final Fantasy XII the battles got pretty boring especially seeing as the characters are just set up with their gambits. Certainly the graphics are better in FFXII, but I still like the character designs and the "world" in FFX-2 more. I think that considering Final Fantasy X-2 was release several years before Final Fantasy XII, it's graphics can't be considered horrible in conparison. I actually feel that Final Fantasy XII didn't have as great of music as previous Final Fantasy games. Sure, Final Fantasy X-2 didn't have the greatest music, but neither did Final Fantasy XII. Finally the voice acting in both were about equal in my opinion.
I was talking about the more recent games like FFVII-FFX because those are mostly my favorites. The initial games are bound to be a little generic. I know that these games share certain themes with other stories, but I was more talking about the execution and the plot. I haven't seen another game that is like FFVII, VIII, or X. Sure, they may share a similar theme with other stories, but their worlds and stories seemed pretty unique to me. Final Fantasy XII on the other hand did not seem as innovative as its predecessors. The world may have looked good graphically, but I did not see much that looked really unique about it. Also the story felt a little bland to me. Maybe it was because it was so much about politics. I'm not sure; it just did not seem as much of a "fantasy" to me. Also FFXII seemed to take a lot from the other games placed in the Ivalice world. These are all opinions, so neither of us are wrong in thinking that the story is either highly original and creative or just an average to maybe a little above average story.
I just think that the commoner thief wanting to improve the world might be a little overused. He may have had development, but he seems to be the generic type of character who is used in many different games and stories. Also I cannot see how Penelo could not be considered generic. Unless she has some great importance that I missed, or it is near the end of the game, she basically did nothing. She just followed along, and had little to no significance. I could be wrong about her, seeing as I did not finish the game, but I can't see her having too big of a role later on in the game either.
Obviously the earlier games are going to have some flaws, so once again, I'm talking about the more recent games.
I was referring to the majority of the later bosses. I don't think that it was that simple to become a power-house. You had to spend time to level all your materia especially if you wanted the extra copies. Also you had to find or work towards getting the best materia and weapons. This may just be me, but I still don't see a way to bypass having to level up your materia to get the extra copies to be a powerhouse. Also getting some of the higher end materia is hard to do or at least it takes time.
I'm pretty sure it is just with Squall. I remember when I usually play, Squall is at a much higher level than all of the other party members, and thus so are the enemies.
This does not mean that it is going to be easy. I remember when I first played some of my characters were doing 9999 outside of trance and it still took me several tries to beat Necron.
My characters were certainly not like this while I was playing the game. When I beat the game, I don't think my characters were even doing 9999 unless it was an overdrive or something. I still think this takes time because you have to get actually get weapons that would break the damage limit, and then you would have to level quite a bit to get enough spheres on the sphere grid. I would not say it is very easy. Some of the weapons are hard to get, and it will take time to get far enough on the sphere grid.
First of all, I don't like games where it takes a lot of time to "break" the system. If you can do just about everything without "breaking" the system, then I would rather not waste my time. Also like I said, I have not finished the game yet, so what I said is probably not accurate with the harder optional bosses near the end of the game. I kind of got sidetracked before. The point I was trying to make was more of the fact that it was not difficult to complete the license board, and once you do complete the license board, your characters are then exactly the same, just with different stats. You cannot say the same with other Final Fantasy games. With that line I was trying to say that this happens naturally in Final Fantasy XII, but not in any other game.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I personally did not like the english voice actors. I don't know, but I for one would be pretty excited for a Japanese dub option available for FFXIII. For me, it is not because it sounds "foreign." I think the voices match the characters better, and it is better put together than the english dub. It would give me a better experience playing the game, but I guess I'll only have to dream about it because I can't see it happening any time soon.
If you say that Final Fantasy XII did not seem to be a "fantasy" then what do you consider Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy VIII; regardless of your answer a fantasy is a fiction characterized by highly fanciful or supernatural elements (I used the definition that was most relevant to the series). Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy VIII, & Final Fantasy XII are all fantasies - there were automatic guns in Final Fantasy VII & VIII and space shuttles, missles, and a space station in FF VIII which were not in Final Fantasy XII. I'll also like to point out the various mechs/robots in Final Fantasy VII, VIII & X; Final Fantasy XII did have huge airships and fighter ships which were powered by glosair rings i.e., magic.
While I don't know about Final Fantasy VII being unique in the execution of its plot FF VIII and FF X did have uniqueness that I liked about them. There have been many war films done, yet the recently made films, in the scope of cinematography, shouldn't be discredited because the plot had been done before. Anyways there are parts of the plot that make Final Fantasy XII different from the rest.
Ivalice being a world already created was something that set Final Fantasy XII apart from its predecessors. The Ivalice shown in the FFT and Vagrant Story were set during the typical age of degression; Final Fantasy XII was set during the golden age of Ivalice. That is also unique to Final Fanatsy XII from its predecessors because most games in the main series take place during a time when their worlds were in a "dark age".
By the way, where did you stop in Final Fantasy XII?
Vaan didn't want to improve the world, he wanted to improve the lives of Dalmascans, though that was ignsificant to what he most wanted to do - to become a sky pirate for certain reasons that I shall not name for possible spoilers. For possible spoilers I won't get into this further but there is a round-about way to say that he wanted to "improve the world". How many times is the story told through the eyes of a commoner who stays a commoner throughout the story and not some legendary, super-powered, more significant or a character with a mysterious past or existence. Vaan is quite different. Penelo, along with Vaan, gave the player the commoner's view of the story and that is where I think you are making an error in judging them. They are not meant to be all important to the story, just to be the eyes for the player and that is one thing different about FF XII from other RPGs - the main character was an observer and not important to the story. It was a different kind of story-telling. Your assumption that all characters must have a certain amount of importance to the story collides with the nature of FFXII where they changed things up.
It took me around 55 hours for both playthroughs of Final Fantasy VII and my second time I did it quicker and was more powerful. The later bosses where push-overs and very easy to beat; to give you some perspective into how easy it was for me: Safer Sephiroth only had 5 or less turns against me. I did not have Knights of the Round or complex materia combos. During my second playthrough my materia kept leveling up, mastering and copied quite fast. And you don't need extra copies of materia to become a power-house - Final Fantasy VII is just that easy.
It was based off the party's level; Squall being higher would make the enemies level higher than the rest of the party. I'm not so sure about not being able to get higher level spells early in the game, also how early are you talking about too? My uncertainty on the aforementioned matter is due to the player being able to get some or all of their final weapons on Disc 2. Also, you can't get higher level spells, weapons or armour early in FF XII either and in FF VIII you can get their final weapons a lot sooner than the final weapons of FF XII. To "break" FF VIII doesn't take too long either - around 55 hours and you would have beaten the game with UBER-POWER. I don't know who is in your party, but with the proper junction set-up, Squall, Irvine, and Zell as your party you will decimate all foes except one, Omega Weapon, with just limits - they are that powerful and are able to dish out insane amounts of damage. On the subject of Omega Weapon, that dives into side-superbosses whom are found in many FF games that are there to test the players mettle and skill who have broken the game. The celestial weapons in FF X made the story bosses and some side-bosses pathetic, however the monsters in the Monster Arena, such as the Paragon would not be so susceptible to an easy defeat with just the celestial weapons- it took even more. While it takes more to defeat the optional superbosses that doesn't mean that the characters aren't broken for an overwhelming majority of the game.
I'm pretty sure it is just with Squall. I remember when I usually play, Squall is at a much higher level than all of the other party members, and thus so are the enemies.
The multiple characters that could do 9999 damage easily was only the tip of the iceberg. Add: auto-regen, auto-haste, some gems that protected against status-affects, auto-protect or auto-shell and you'll be pretty well set. But let me make it even more OP - equip armour that absorbs shadow damage and have Vivi cast Doomsday; Necron takes 9999 and your party is healed making you have two healers and one of them max damages Necron at the same time. As I said it is quite easy to be OP in FF IX and the other FF games but it appears you haven't been able to come across the set-up for them at all. Oh on a final note for FF IX it won't take that long to get to that set-up either: I was a higher level but I beat the game around 52 hours and only 20 minutes longer than my first time, talk about efficiency.
The celestial weapons you really need are just: Tidus, Yuna, Wakka, and Auron and with them you will crush everything and they are easy to get. The toughest maybe Tidus, but all that takes is skill to get his Sun Sigil. Training in Omega's Cave(?) makes gaining "levels" go by very quickly.
Completing the license board and getting the what is on the licenses are two totally different things. So you may have that license board completed but hardly any of the higher end materials. In the end you would still get the higher-end materials around the same time as in other FF games. In a majority of FF games your characters can be customized to do anything the player wants - you are having a hard time either accepting this or realizing this. In the previous games character "x" can do anything but may not be the best at what "x" was customed for, just like in FF XII where Penelo has the best magic power stat along with Ashe so they would be better at magic than Basch who has the lowest. Or Bash would not be the best tank because he has the lowest vitality stat. RPGs are number games I shouldn't have to repeat that. You may not be aware but how the weapons calculate damage changes from each weapon offering deeper customization (katanas factor in Magic Power so they are not to shabby for mage characters; some poles or staves, unsure, grant Magic Power and mp bonuses to the wielder to make a better mage). I suspect that you really haven't gone in-depth with the customization therefore leading you to the evalution that FF XII is bland.
Main series FFs Beaten - FF: 4x, FFII: 3x, FFIII: 3x, FFIV: 3x, FFV: 3x, FFVI: 4x, FFVII: 5x, FFVIII: 5x, FFIX: 3x, FFX: 4x, FFXII: 3x, FFXIII: 2x, FFXV: 2x
X-2 sucked. I liked the new game+ feature. But that's about it. I hated the fact that if you fought a certain boss @ lvl 16 it's HP would be maybe 1650. BUT if you fought the excact same on @ level 30 -- it would be maybe 3000 hp. In other words: you could beat the game @ level 22.
Fantasy
This is the definition I was referring to. Maybe I should have used the word realistic. It is hard to explain, but the plot seemed more realistic than previous games and I did not like it as much. As I said, it is hard to explain what I am trying to say, so I hope you understand the point I was trying to make now. You seem to really have liked the plot, but people have different tastes, and I did not like it as much as the previous few games. I'm not saying that it is horrible; I'm just saying that in my opinion, it is worse than a majority of the other Final Fantasy games.6. An unrealistic or improbable supposition.
I do not remember exactly where I stopped because it was probably two years ago now, but I do know that I had just about the entire license board filled out (as in I had the license and skill, magick, item, etc. =/), so I figured I must have been pretty far through the game. I tried to finish the game a couple of times since then, but I have yet to finish it. The game always turns out to be fun initially, but I eventually get bored and since the time I spend playing games is limited now, I move on to a different game that seems more interesting.
I realize what you are saying, but that still does not change my opinion of the characters. I still do not like them very much. They were not very interesting, and I do not like how they had little to no role in the plot. If this collides with the nature of the game, then that is a problem and I'm going to like it less. Surely not every change that is made is going to be liked, and this is one of the changes that I do not like. I doubt that you can say that you like every change that was made in this game either.
Maybe this game just seemed easier to me because I battled too much in the beginning. I admit that all of these games can be easy, but Final Fantasy XII wasn't that hard either. Anyway I do not have much of a problem with the game's difficulty. If I compare to previous Final Fantasy games, none of them are very hard except for some of the optional bosses. My problem was that the gambit system allowed for your characters to fight without you and still win. I think it is the easiest when you can win without doing anything.
I understand that RPGs are a "numbers game," and I understand how the battle system works in Final Fantasy XII, but I still do not like that there are no differences between the characters besides the stats. I believe that it is better if they at least have some sort of special attack or some power that makes them unique. If they don't, it makes them seem more generic in my opinion. I'm going to make somewhat of an analogy here.
Sure, you can play Final Fantasy Tactics with all generic characters and be unstoppable, but isn't it more fun to play with at least some of the unique characters that can do special attacks? This may just be my opinion, but I still hold by it and feel that Final Fantasy XII's battle system makes the characters feel more generic than in previous games.
I still do not see how anyone can not see that Final Fantasy is going downhill. All of the games after Final Fantasy X, except for Final Fantasy XII have been bad, and Final Fantasy XII only seems to be average in my opinion. Also I still do not like the 3-6 year wait for average games... I understand that there were staff issues now, but still for this amount of time, the games should be better than what they are. In my opinion Final Fantasy used to be the upper class of RPGs, but recently it has started to fall into mediocrity.
Final Fantasy has no been going downhill. Never has, it's just all the fans who scream out that the older games should be the only way to make the games now. If I recall, X got a perfect 10 and XII got a 40/40, sounds like SE did a horrible job.
I know why some people might not like XII, because I hated it too when it first came out, for no listening to the cut scenes, plus it was political. Then I actually played it, LISTENED to the story and ignored the fact it was all political ,so I knew what was going on and hell the game was great, had great action, great moment, could have been better but it was good for what it had.
And Rascalz, you are right about FFXII being like all the other RPGs, because FF is the main stream of RPGS. Go to somewhere like Japan, a lot of RPG gamers would probably make fun of you for being a huge Final Fantasy fan, FF isn't huge in japan like it is here in the states, a lot of other RPGs over there are considered way way better then Final Fantasy.
In my eyes, if you're talking bad about one Final Fantasy, then you are talking bad about all of them.
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FF12's storyline sucked ass apart from the last hour or two of the game, the narrative was extremely dull too and the characters were forgettable apart from maybe Doctor Cid and Reddas.
The gameplay though although it was different i enjoyed and other things like the Monster Hunts and chaining enemies gave the game added playability.
I hope 13 has a storyline i'll actually bother paying attention to, narrative that doesn't feel like a waste of time listening to and characters who you don't secretly hope die in battle.
I'm not going to argue about FFXII's validity. I do feel like it could've been much better if S-E didn't pressure Matsuno so much on the game THEY wanted instead of the game HE wanted to make. A real shame of wasted material.
I could give one very clear-cut reason why FF Sucks and is NOT the same series a lot of us grew up with: The Big Three are gone. Sakaguchi, Uematsu, and Amano (yeah Amano contributes some art here and there, but he's no longer designing characters). I mean Sakaguchi said the series was in proper hands with Matsuno, and the bigwigs at S-E drove him out.
When I look at FFXIII, I see a decent sounding game that's aimed more toward casual tweens than gamers. I mean seeing that latest trailer with the English dialog came across as some Fantasy Anime/Teen Soap hybrid and not an exciting adventure game that's fun to play.
While I think VIII and IX were "okay" I really think X was the first time they really thought a blend of Boy meets Girl+Quest to Stop the Badguy really clicked with the new generation of Square and that's what they've kept with it. No Sakaguchi, the original creator of these series, to say they're wrong.
Sad, really. The same thing happened with Cartoon Network, with Ted Turner gone, Execs moved in to create the channel THEY wanted, a flimsy Nickelodeon ripoff that was no longer about Cartoons 24/7.
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