Helloween/Gamma Ray

[Clint]

Helloween are the self-proclaimed "fathers of Power Metal," considering it was their sound which inspired later Power Metal bands.

Any other Helloween fans on here?

http://www.myspace.com/helloween

Lead guitarist and main songwriter of Helloween, Kai Hansen left after the third album, moving on to form Gamma Ray, another great power metal band.

http://www.myspace.com/gmmaray

So, any opinions?

[Jin]

Well I disagree with the songs you chose to showcase Helloween, but yes, I am a big fan of both, although I think Helloween has declined in recent years. The third Keeper of the Seven Keys album was just a hodgepodge of tracks, only a few of which were good; and they've just gone down since. Gamma Ray as well was less than optimal in my opinion on their last album, however, still good.

Despite these quibbles, both bands give me fond memories. Kai Hansen is the true mastermind of both bands. His days with Helloween yielded some of their best stuff and Gamma Ray from Insanity and Genius onward has been quality. No World Order would have to be my favourite album by far. That album single handedly got me into metal.

Back to Helloween, Michael Kiske was a curse and a hack and he ruined that band during his time there. His singing was extremely over rated in the first two Keeper of the Seven Keys and the albums were only good due to Hansen's song writing. After Kai left, the shit hit the fan and they sucked until Deris (or however you spell his name) came in to clean up the mess. On that note, some of my favourite albums are from the post Kiske years.

This post has been extremely incoherent. Hurray.

[Clint]

Michael Kiske was a curse and a hack and he ruined that band during his time there.

I disagree with you there. Michael Kiske got in over his head after Keeper II. Kiske wanted creative control over the band, as did Hansen and Weikath. It was the combination of the dysfunction over power and extensive touring that Kai finally left the band. Afterword, Kiske did take control, and between Pink Bubbles Go Ape and Chameleon, their sound changed dramatically, fitting the style of music that Kiske wanted to play. The albums completely bombed, especially Chameleon, and Weikath kicked Michale out of the band and took back creative control. It wasn't necessarily a curse; it was more like Weikath's bad luck hiring somebody who had no interest in performing metal.

... and the albums were only good due to Hansen's song writing.

I'm not saying that I'm disagreeing with you on this one, I'm just saying that you're completely wrong. Hansen wrote six songs on Keeper I, co-writing with Weikath on one of those songs. On Keeper II, which in my opinion is the better of the two, Hansen wrote only three songs, while Weikath wrote five, including Eagle Fly Free, Dr. Stein, and Keeper of the Seven Keys, which are three of Helloween's greatest songs. It had nothing to do with Hansen's writing. Pink Bubbles and Chameleon were failures because the majority of the songs were written by Kiske.

Don't underestimate Michale Weikath's songwriting abilities.

[Jin]

I disagree with you there. Michael Kiske got in over his head after Keeper II. Kiske wanted creative control over the band, as did Hansen and Weikath. It was the combination of the dysfunction over power and extensive touring that Kai finally left the band. Afterword, Kiske did take control, and between Pink Bubbles Go Ape and Chameleon, their sound changed dramatically, fitting the style of music that Kiske wanted to play. The albums completely bombed, especially Chameleon, and Weikath kicked Michale out of the band and took back creative control. It wasn't necessarily a curse; it was more like Weikath's bad luck hiring somebody who had no interest in performing metal.

When I said a curse, I meant that he was awful for the band. The kind of music he wanted to do sucked, to be frank.

I'm not saying that I'm disagreeing with you on this one, I'm just saying that you're completely wrong. Hansen wrote six songs on Keeper I, co-writing with Weikath on one of those songs. On Keeper II, which in my opinion is the better of the two, Hansen wrote only three songs, while Weikath wrote five, including Eagle Fly Free, Dr. Stein, and Keeper of the Seven Keys, which are three of Helloween's greatest songs. It had nothing to do with Hansen's writing. Pink Bubbles and Chameleon were failures because the majority of the songs were written by Kiske.

Don't underestimate Michale Weikath's songwriting abilities.

This is true, so allow me to rephrase it to say what I meant. A lot of people go on and on about how the Keepers albums were good because of Kiske. Some act as if he was the greatest singer ever. Personally, I think he was a rather mediocre singer and it was due to song writing (as you stated Kai's as well as Michael's) that made the albums good. Sorry for the confusion. I'm a huge Hansen fan and often forget about Weikath. Although on a song by song basis, I prefer Kai's songs. I tested it.

[Clint]

Some act as if he was the greatest singer ever. Personally, I think he was a rather mediocre singer and it was due to song writing (as you stated Kai's as well as Michael's) that made the albums good.

I personally think that Andi Deris is a better singer than Kiske. Sure, Kiske is good, but he has no emotion when he sings. And you're right; Kiske is very overrated. He was only in the band for seven years, whereas, Deris has been in the band for fourteen years now, and yet people still claim that Michael Kiske is the voice of Helloween. It's pretty ridiculous.

[Jin]

What the ****, you seriously live in Winnipeg? What are the odds that the only two vocal Helloween/Gamma Ray fans on this forum are from Winnipeg?

But yes, I completely agree about Deris. Personally, I think he's an excellent singer and I most definitely identify him as the voice of Helloween.